Going Pro: The Data Behind Nathan Cusack's Journey From Juniors to EF Education-Aevolo

OVERVIEW
Nathan Cusack is an emerging talent in road racing, having won his first European race in 2025, racing for Team USA at Tour de l'Avenir, and ending the season by signing on with EF Education-Aevolo. Nathan has been a CTS Athlete coached by Adam Pulford for four years, and as he makes his transition to the U23 Elite ranks and a top international development team, it's time to take a look at what it takes to go from Junior to Pro in cycling. 

In Episode 281, Coach Adam Pulford and Nathan reveal the power numbers required to reach the podium in international U23 races, the progression of annual training hours required to go pro, and how the young rider learned the race craft necessary to win against the best in the world.

Topics Covered In This Episode:

• Nathan's start in road racing
• Progression of annual training hours from Junior to Pro
• Power outputs indicative of an emerging talent in road cycling
• What wins races: race craft vs. power output?
• How to learn race craft in the United States
• Joining EF Education-Aevolo

Resources

• Nathan Cusack on IG: https://www.instagram.com/nathancusack_/
• EF Education/Aevolo Announcement: https://www.efeducationaevolo.com/racing/new-rider-alert-nathan-cusack-steps-up-with-ef-education-aevolo/

Guest Bio:

Raised in the Washington D.C. area and progressing from cyclocross to road cycling as a teenager, Nathan Cusack rode for DC Velo as a junior and Kelly Benefits Cycling Team as a U23. The 20-year-old had a breakthrough season in 2025, securing his first European road racing victory in Spain, making his debut in the prestigious U23 race, Tour de l'Avenir, and ending the year with a well-deserved 2026 contract with EF Education-Aevolo.

Currently in his third year of studying at the University of Vermont, where he is pursuing a four-year degree in data science, he joins the EF Education-Aevolo team as a rider of genuine potential and a swift finisher.

HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Episode Setup
• 0:52 Meet U23 Pro Nathan Cusack
• 2:16 2025 Season Start: VOS To TBC Wins
• 4:20 Europe Block: Belgium Races And Lessons
• 5:36 Redlands Struggles And Breakaway Podium
• 6:53 Collegiate Title And U23 Nats Recap
• 8:11 Rider Type, Coaching Approach, And Training Mix
• 11:26 Spain Campaign: Hard Courses, Hard Living, Big Growth
• 15:12 Selection For L’Avenir: How It Happened
• 18:08 Racing L’Avenir: The Hardest Week Yet
• 21:06 Maryland Classic And Managing Late-Season Fatigue
• 22:36 Signing With EF Education’s Dev Team
• 24:16 Origins: From Cross Kid To Coached Racer
• 27:34 Volume Progression And Letting Capacity Emerge
• 31:22 Group Rides As Race Labs And Craft Building
• 34:40 East Coast Roots, College Choice, And Scene
• 37:24 What Worked: Fun, Visualization, And Specificity
• 40:06 Power Numbers: Sprints, VO2, Threshold
• 44:40 Results vs Power And Studying Sprints
• 47:16 No Single Breakout: The Slow Build
• 49:40 Can AI Coach You? Why The Human Network Matters
• 53:04 Advice To Juniors: School, Balance, And Joy
• 55:30 Closing, Where To Follow Nathan, CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:06

From the team at Seat Guest, this is the Time Crunch Cyclist Podcast, our show dedicated to answering your training questions and providing actionable advice to help you improve your performance, even if you're stopped for time. I'm your host, Coach Adam Pulford, and I'm one of the over 50 professional coaches who make up the team at Seat Guest. In each episode, I draw on our team's collective knowledge, other coaches, and experts in the field to provide you with the practical ways to get the most out of your training and ultimately become the best cyclist that you can be. Now, on to our show. Today we'll be a bit of storytelling, showcasing a U.S. rider talent, and we'll offer some tips you can apply to your training in racing. We usually aim for the shorter, more actionable episodes, but settle in for just a touch longer today because it's going to be totally worth your time. I'm here with U23 Pro Rider and CTS athlete Nathan Cusek to unravel what it takes to go from junior to pro. Nathan, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22

I'm honored to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24

I am honored to be uh interviewing you, Nathan, and uh uh you know part of your journey that that you've been on. But uh where are you talking to us from today, Nathan?

SPEAKER_02: 1:35

Um I'm currently up in Burlington, Vermont. I'm in school at the University of Vermont. Um, so I'm just doing my fall fall semester up here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44

Yeah, somewhere between um, I don't know, Chem Lab and the next class, I would assume.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49

Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51

Excellent. Well, uh disclaimer here, uh Nathan is not a time-crunched athlete, although he has moments where that's the case. Uh, but some of you have written in wanting to hear more about my athletes and others that we coach to hear their stories of how they train and race to reach their goals. So today is exactly that. A great story from a member of the CTS athlete family. So we'll first start by recapping Nathan's 2025 season, then go back in time when Nathan was a junior. We'll look at uh total training hours, power numbers, and the development over the years, then we'll bring it back full circle with what he has in store for 2026 and beyond. Along the way, we'll share what has worked for him in both training and racing preparations. And the whole goal here is to inspire everybody that's listening, whether you're young or old, on how to keep training and chasing your dreams. Because although it's never easy, if you keep on doing the work, get good people around you, develop your skills, you can accomplish what you set out to do. So, with that said, Nathan, let's look back at 2025. We usually start the season here in the United States with uh, you know, the great season opener of Valley of the Sun or Voss as we like to call it, uh, roll into TBC. Tell us tell us about that and then your spring block in Europe.

SPEAKER_02: 3:15

Yeah. Um so as always, the season started in Voss. I've been down there four years um in a row, and it's always nice to be in sunny Arizona after what feels like long winters uh here on the East Coast. Um, but I've never really had a ton of success in Voss, and this year kind of um continued that pattern, although it was able to spark some fitness, and going into TBC um I won every road stage. Um so that was the crit, the road race, and the um the circuit race on the last day. So that was just a great way to start the season, uh set the tone really for myself.

SPEAKER_00: 3:59

Um super cleaned up, and I I guess when I was like on Instagram watching and stuff, I was getting excited because uh Cora, your youngest sister, was no longer the most winningest QSAC for the year.

SPEAKER_02: 4:13

So Yeah, Cora definitely cleans up with the local races, but I had to show out. Uh yeah, so then I went over to Belgium with USA cycling um and did a couple races over there, including Youngsters Coast, uh, which is my biggest race to date. And it's always a good time over there. Youngsters was really hard, but I was able to, in some interclub races, pick up a fifth and then top ten um in a stage race in the Ardennes. So it was good to kind of keep the ball rolling, but no nothing, no separation in terms of results in Europe yet.

SPEAKER_00: 4:53

So why do you say Youngsters was like the biggest race like at that point? What makes that race so big? Why is it prestigious?

SPEAKER_02: 5:00

Well, I mean, lining up with the um all the dev teams from I mean, you've got Sudal, uh Visma, um, Lotto, like it was every big dev team, and just they're wearing the exact same kits pretty much and throwing even sharper elbows.

SPEAKER_00: 5:19

Yeah, so in terms of that like true development, when you take it to the next level and you're at that age, uh that's where you need to be for um getting that development. So you you come back from um from Europe and you jump into Redlands, right?

SPEAKER_02: 5:36

Yeah, uh, I think I had about a week here in Vermont um in between Europe and Redlands, not even sure the bike made it out of the box um in between and Redlands was uh a a hard race. It had a tough start with TT and then the Onyx climb, um, two stages that don't really suit me. And then um later in later stages I knew I had the legs, but wasn't couldn't quite find the luck. So then on the last stage on Sunset, I took a shot and um followed some some big names into a move that stuck and was able to get third there, uh, which was a pretty uh amazing result for me. I've never really had a good result from breakaway. Um, and so that one felt really, really good.

SPEAKER_00: 6:25

Yeah, that was and that was huge. I think that was uh you know, kind of like tailing off of what you did at TBC. It was just like you know, getting those those whiffs and inklings that this was gonna be a really good year. And you did go full sin. I mean, I I you probably just wanted to die in that in that breakaway. Um, but uh uh I mean I was I was so stoked when when uh I got that text message. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:51

That was a great time.

SPEAKER_00: 6:53

So then you rolled into uh collegiate gnats and then road gnats, right?

SPEAKER_02: 6:58

Yeah, yeah. So we did some local racing um to get the number of collegiate starts that I needed to race collegiate nats, um, and then went out to Madison to race those. Um and was able to take away the win in the in the crit, in the collegiate crit. Um so that was like really amazing. My first national title. Um just kind of keeping the momentum going uh with that, and then straight into road nets um for the my main goal is the U-23 race there, and just faced stomach issues, and then in the crit, um the team raced amazingly and seemed just got out, sprinted in the last 200 meters, um, and then in the elite race I had a solid day just fighting back all day. Um was able to come come home with 16th uh in the final group that finished. But you know, winning the group sprint there, I mean, for 16th, you do what you can.

SPEAKER_00: 7:56

Yeah, oh for sure. And and not to get super deep in the weeds, I mean, that result on that course in the elites is huge, especially for like a U-23 rider. Um it's just it's hard, it's hilly, it's the top, the creme of the creme. But for those who maybe have guessed, they're like, oh, what kind of rider is this? Is he a sprinter? He's talking about crits. Like, how would you categorize yourself as a racer?

SPEAKER_02: 8:21

Well, my director for like last three years, Nima, has always said that um the best rider to be is a racer. And I I really like that. Like, I when I line up, I just try to win the race, get to the get to the end in the front group, and then sprint. Uh that being said, I do like to sprint from a bigger group uh where I can sit in the draft for most of the day. So um I would say I'm more of a sprinter, um, but like maybe the tactical, like finding the right wheels, launching at the right type guy, not the Jonathan Milan um 2,000 watts type.

SPEAKER_00: 8:59

Yeah, no, that there's very few of those out there. But but yeah, I mean I think that when people have asked me as well, like what kind of rider is is uh Nathan, I'm like, he's crafty. He's a crafty dude, right? And I I think in this this will kind of like go into what we're talking about, but but you are I I'd say left up to your own uh devices. I mean, you would be probably a sprinter phenotype in the way that you make your power, okay? And and we we just we determine that based on your like anaerobic and your aerobic uh power outputs. And you typically will come in, especially when we get tuned up for a race, is like a sprinter. But I train you more like an all-arounder to not neglect the uh 20-minute, 40-minute, 60-minute efforts, so that when you do get in the breakaway, you know, you've got the durability and the depth to hang in there. So I would say your phenotype rolls throughout the year based on what how we're training between sprinter and all-arounder. And I think just on the coaching side of things, I'm I'm like making sure that like just dialing each up a little bit or the other one down, um, rolling into it. But I think too, what people need to realize is like you don't when you're rolling into something like Redlands and in some of these other stage races, you don't always have to be going for the win on these, especially if it doesn't favor you. So how does that factor into your equation when you do toe the line and you're the the racer for the day that that Nima wants you to be?

SPEAKER_02: 10:35

Yeah, um, I mean, like starting NETT is I'm not the racer that day, or even most summit finishes, not really the racer that day. But in that case, like you just gotta help your teammates, and then any other day, like you just try to be there, like just being there, taking a spot up at the front of the Peloton that's in your team's jersey is helping the team no matter what, and as long as you're there, I think you're racing, and like as you said, like we're trying to continue to develop that like all arounder, just because as I continue to go up in the ranks of cycling, like I gotta be there at the end of the races to sprint, and it like that just keeps getting harder and harder, and so just continue to dial down that aspect of it.

SPEAKER_00: 11:26

Now that we've kind of identified what what type of rider you are, Nathan, um the past couple years we've had a Spain campaign uh in the middle of the season. Tell us why that's important, um, what that campaign looks like, and the value that that brings in your overall development.

SPEAKER_02: 11:46

Yeah, for sure. I definitely think development is the key there. Um I've raced in Europe the last few summers, um, Belgium, Spain, France, and I would say my favorite racing is Belgium, but where I learn the most is Spain. Um, because I'm racing in conditions that are really hard on courses that don't suit me. And I mean, that's how you learn. Um so when I'm racing in Spain, it's long stages, long stage races, five, seven days, um, and then off the bikes, not ideal, sleeping in. Um uh in hostels, just bunk rows with your all your teammates, no AC. Um, you can imagine how how that is, and you just kind of learn to kind of fend for yourself in in the way of like just making sure you have what you need dialed. Like I have a special drink mix that I like to use. I like to make sure that I have my three-hour meal and I just carry out a Tupperware and make sure I get that. Um stuff like that that you really you can really learn, and then on the courses you I mean, you learn how to race to your advantages. I feel like starting climbs at the front front of the Peloton is like something that I've kind of dialed and just like being able to use know what my strengths and weaknesses are in order to succeed, and that's something I've learned to do well in Spain.

SPEAKER_00: 13:17

Yeah, that's it. And I and I think too, um, you know, if you're if you're going to uh have longevity in this sport, you gotta become really efficient when it comes to the off-the-bike stuff like that. And and what Nathan was talking about, his three-hour meal, his meal that works for him three hours out from the start of the race. And usually it's something simple, high carb, has some other has some fat and protein, um, but just have that ready to go because that is the the the last fuel that goes in the tank. Um, but from the like the staffing standpoint and being a director, it's like you want an athlete like that. Like like Nathan just described, somebody who takes care of the stuff that he needs to take care of for himself. Uh, because like I when I was a director, I I had athletes that were just all over the place and you felt like you were just like picking up after them or or uh just doing everything that you possibly could to like get them to the start line. And when you have an athlete like Nathan, and I did have some athletes like this that just were super dialed, it it made the whole machine just work way more efficiently. So I think like you know, going from the first year in Spain or or the to the second year in Spain, and even when I talked to Nima, I mean it was like it was a lot of that. It's like, yeah, Nathan's simple. Everybody want everybody wants a rider like that, you know. So uh but yeah, no AC at night, uh summertime in Spain. That's it's pretty rough.

SPEAKER_02: 14:42

And then what we do have like we had one uh Airbnb that had uh the AC units and we had them set to like 60 degrees, and we were closing our doors to our bedrooms, and we would walk in there just be an ice chamber, and it felt so nice.

SPEAKER_00: 14:59

Yeah, the things the things we do on the road. Yeah. Um but yeah, yeah, and and I think too, it's like you kind of like over race, you can't you like and you just have to do that to gain that experience. And I think it is it set you up well, especially for uh kind of the tail end of the season when um you know we we learned that you got selected for lavanier. And I know personally I was I was a bit surprised, and I was um man, I was somewhere when you when you told me like super busy doing something, and I was like, kiddy up, let's go. But I'm like, holy crap, this is gonna be like his hardest race, I think, ever. So I actually don't know how you were selected for this, Nathan. Um the details of it. So could you tell us what Lavenier is, why it's such a big one, um, and how you got selected and in some of the story around that?

SPEAKER_02: 15:52

Yeah, so Lavenier is uh French for the future, and it's essentially the under 23 Tour de France. It's a seven-day stage race in France, in and out of the Alps, that um just has the best talents in the U-23 field, guys like Paul Sachas, um, who just kind of had his breakout ride at Worlds and in the European champs, and then uh Lorenzo Finn, the under-23 world champ, um just duking it out every day. So that's what Laveneer is. I got selected. I I kind of had been hearing over the summer that I was kind of on the edge. I was hearing from my sources uh that I was in one day, out the next day, and then we didn't really get to this, but I uh was able to come up with a win on my final stage of my final race in Spain, and I heard that that was kind of what um put me over the edge. It was my first European win. Um, so that felt really, really good to um kind of break that that barrier, the mental block that it was like so I feel like some guys only ever win in the US and can only figure out that style of racing, and I feel like I was close, but I had never really gotten there, so it was good to break that and get that win. And then I was actually with my family on vacation, um kind of out on a boat, and I was getting these sporadic texts, um, just like one every like a couple every few minutes, and I was realizing I had pretty bad service, but I got a text from my director, Nima, and he just said, You're not doing GMSR, which is the Green Mountain stage race up here in Vermont. And I was like, Well, that means I'm doing Avenir because there's no reason I wouldn't be doing Green Mountain. Um so that was kind of a crazy realization there. Um then I get I got back, got connected to some Wi-Fi, and realized got all got all the emails, the official invites, the um intake forms, stuff like that, and it all kind of hit me that I would be doing the under 23 Tour de France.

SPEAKER_00: 18:10

Yeah, that's wild. As you were saying that, I was like, where was I was in Spain um with your sister, uh Lydia, who uh we were doing a nations cup and and other uh athletes as well, and I just remember I was like, dang, like that is huge. So when when you learn that, like what went through your head, like and you're on vacation, mind you.

SPEAKER_02: 18:32

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I was like my season was a little bit over. Um like I was on vacation, I'd finished up my Spain block, and when I got that, I was just like it was just a wow moment. Um it didn't totally hit me. I was finally gonna get like an opportunity to swing it with the big guys, um, and that was super exciting. So yeah, it was just amazing. I don't think it truly hit me until maybe I got there and we were driving driving up the Alps to Um where we started the first stage and we had the meeting, and I was like, wow, this is incredible.

SPEAKER_00: 19:12

Yeah, totally. And I and I think too, just to scale this, is like I've had another rider do it before. It was it was and she was a climber, and it was still like the biggest race and and probably the hardest race she had ever done. Um you just heard that Nathan's not the climber, he's not bad at climbing, but more of a finisher. And and so in that way, when I when I heard that you made the team for it, I was like, like should have done some more hill climbing, should have done some more volume. And it was just an opportunity that we kind of like we didn't see coming, we had to take it, so we did, obviously. But um walk us through like high level, we don't need to get into the super details of it, but like how challenging was this for you and and how did it go?

SPEAKER_02: 20:01

It was the hardest thing I've ever done. Um like hands down, easily. Um stage one was a pretty long day and uh ended or there was a 15k three percent climb um that ended I think 10k from the finish, and 15k 3% is pretty draftable, and I got dropped. And I was like, oh boy, I'm in for it. Um and so whenever I'm in moments like this, I remember my first training camp as a U23 um was similar, where it's like I feel like I was just getting beat up on the bike. I just focus on everything off the bike, um, eating, sleeping, recovery. Um, and that's pretty much the mode I went into. It was like do everything you can in the races to be there at the finishes, and then when you're off the bike, it's just like you get your legs up, you get your massage, you get dinner, you go to sleep. Maybe you read the the tech guide while you're getting your massage. Um so that that's pretty much how the experience was. The days did get better from that first day on. I kind of figured figured things out a little more um and was able to make make a couple of those finishes, and then yeah, I mean the whole experience was really eye-opening to see that next level and the level that the guys are on was absurd.

SPEAKER_00: 21:36

Yeah, and again, you like when you roll into that, yeah you you get excited because it's about where you're going and getting that experience in the system versus getting excited to to do something there. You know what I mean? And that's where I think from the developmental side of things is um you you really have to take the longer term approach. And it can be as a young rider, or it can be as you know, a middle-aged person that just wants to become like a better climber or a better stage racer or something like that, where it's like sometimes the first year you're doing something is just to get the experience to get beat up, basically, and then the next year you're gonna be a hell of a lot better because of it, you know. Yeah, and so I think like you know, as we roll into 2026 and beyond, but I mean you've always had a really good, uh, I would say mature uh uh look into the future about that, knowing that when you get your teeth kicked in, it's not because you're a bad racer, it's just about like this is new, this was challenging, and I'm gonna get better from it. So and I and I do think that was uh Lavanier. And you had a speaking of the final end of this season, you had a quick turn from Lavanier to the Maryland classic as well, right?

SPEAKER_02: 22:46

Yeah, I did. That was I think four days, and yeah, Maryland was very hard as well. Um just a hard course, it was way hotter and more humid than um Avenir was, and definitely had a hard day on the bike there.

SPEAKER_00: 23:08

Yeah, and it was you know, the strategy there, folks, was just he had just gone through his biggest race ever and he needed rest, so it was like shut her down, try to do a few openers, you know, before Maryland and rock and roll. But that you know, the the tail end of this season wasn't was not really planned, and sometimes you just have to roll with the punches like that. Yeah, I think that also comes with just bike racing. Yeah, Nathan, I mean you've you've had some huge milestones. We talked about Lavanier, we talked about the huge win in Spain. Um you know winning, getting that success, turning the heads of the you know, the directors and the talent, you know, scouters and stuff. You you got an you got a professional contract for 2026. How does that feel? And can tell us more about that team.

SPEAKER_02: 23:58

I'll be riding with uh EFA Volo for next year, which is the EF uh development team. And it's just amazing. Um I'm not sure it's totally hit yet, um, but it's pretty pretty dreamy. I can barely believe it.

SPEAKER_00: 24:19

Did you uh now we're rolling back like into the junior uh kind of ranks and stuff? Did you did you ever like did you dream about being a professional bike racer? Was this part of the agenda?

SPEAKER_02: 24:31

No, no. It was not. The dream in cycling was to win a national championship. Um when I first started racing, I went to Austin Nationals for Cyclocross in 2015 and was like, this is it, I need to win one of these. Um and I would still like to win one that um doesn't have as many asterisks in front of it. Uh like the I just want to be national champion, not collegiate club crit national champion. Um so that's still on the table, but this is beyond my dreams.

SPEAKER_00: 25:08

Well, we'll we'll get one of those uh Stars and Stripes jerseys. I'm I'm confident in it. Um But uh yeah, I I should ask, I mean, uh, how do Cora and Lydia feel about you getting the first pro contract of the of the family?

SPEAKER_02: 25:22

I'm not sure anybody saw it coming, to be honest. Um of course they're super excited and proud. Um it's gonna be awesome to live with Lydia um in Girona next year. And yeah, they're they're not far behind, I'm sure, of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:38

So for context folks, those listening and and uh catching on to the the inside jokes here, I coach Lydia, I coach Cora as well. Uh Lydia's the the the middle child, and uh she's had quite a bit of success uh on the bike herself, uh rides for uh a team based out of uh the UK right now. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And um and yeah, so she uh is taking the gap year as well uh away from college. She actually finished high school a little bit early to just pursue bike racing, and so now uh both Lydia and Nathan will be living in Europe and and pursuing the dream. But but let's roll back even further now. Like, how did this all first start? Maybe tell the story of how you and I connected and and how I became your coach and how you started just like to want to race your bike.

SPEAKER_02: 26:30

Yeah, for sure. So um I've been racing since I was nine. Um my dad kind of got me into it, and it was mostly cyclocross to start, be racing 10 to 15 cross races a year and going to nationals, just having a good time. Uh, and then out of COVID, I was DC Devo reached out to me and got me on on the road. And in the preseason, I was riding a cross bike with uh road tires and was invited to I think a hundred-mile group ride, and it was pretty pan flat, and I got dropped. Um and Adam waited for me and pulled me back uh to the group and helped me finish that ride, and I'm not really sure how I learned that he was a coach, but then I needed a new coach, and I was like, I I didn't know anything about what Adam like who he coached, like what he did, but I was like, I want that guy. Like he was he was really strong, he pulled me back to the group. Um and so I think my parents reached out and uh we got we got something going and it's been a pretty pretty dream team ever since so that was what 2021 four years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:56

I mean it seem I mean it seems like longer in in a good way. Um but I mean because you were all of like 98 pounds and and for for the record people, like we were riding with like growing men, 180, 200 pounders, DJ Brew, who you've heard on the podcast before, true sprinter types, and little Nathan here was 100 pounds soaking wet on this you know cross bike. And I think your your seat stays were broken. I remember like oh like coming up behind you.

SPEAKER_02: 28:26

I remember that now, actually. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:28

I was like, dude, your seat stays are cracked, man. Like you've got some rear suspension going on.

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

Yeah, that yeah, that's why that bike didn't last very long. Forgot about that.

SPEAKER_00: 28:37

So and I didn't know anything of you at the time, but I was like, this kid's gnarly, like he he they because we were going fast, we're like ripping 23, 25 miles an hour on coverage in southern Maryland. And I was like, who is this kid? Um yeah, so that that is how it happened, yeah. Um good times. Always. So early on, I mean, our I I'll just tell you, my strategy for you was keep it fun, get you racing, and not be overly specific. Would you say that that worked initially?

SPEAKER_02: 29:10

Uh yeah, I would say so.

SPEAKER_00: 29:13

Um do we still keep it fun?

SPEAKER_02: 29:15

Always. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:16

Yeah. And you know you know, and from there, and I think like I'll just keep it short and simple because I think that like if you're coaching kids, like you you do have to take that strategy at some point you gotta up the game. And I'm just gonna rip through some of your like the volume increases. So in 2020, I was just looking back on on previous training here. 2020, you were riding 331 hours, 2021 was 417 hours, 2022 was just under 500 hours, 2023. That's when we made that leap uh up to 657 hours. 2024, and I believe you you were like 17, 18 at that time. Yeah. And then 2024 was 757. 35 hours and uh this year uh we're trajecting to aim for maybe 780 plus, but all of this comes with a little bit of an extra asterisk because uh uh I mean for everybody out there, there are files that are not uploaded, there are rides that um weren't recorded for for Nathan who blows up, loses, forgets, uh, kills wahoos. Hey man, we're we're missing some data, but that's that's about what we got, high level. And so I want everybody to realize that you know, starting young, start low, go slow, right? When you hit that 17 to 18 mark, now you boot it up quite a bit. And as we keep on reaching, and you know, we're gonna go, you know, 900 hours of training probably, 2026. And that, you know, that is a very, I would say, conservative but realistic and safe sort of approach on the volume. Uh if there's anything I would have on my criticism, it would be probably maybe a little bit more volume this year, but again, that you know, did we have it because of the uploading or not? Um, but would you say that overall, Nathan, you during that time span, were you ever, I don't know, overcooked, underdone, or you know, overdone or anything like that?

SPEAKER_02: 31:18

No. Um I just looking at these numbers, it's kind of incredible to me because it feels like it hasn't really changed. I still love it just as much. And so being on the bike is just a joy. And like the increase, like I I can't believe that that increase has happened because it really feels like training has felt very similar and the same. And you know, that jump in 2023, um, that was my second year out of juniors. That was also the or the second year in juniors. Um that was what I would think of as like one of my breakout years on the road, and a big part of that was I had a really good group of friends that I was riding with, and we would go out and Adam would have me scheduled for like a four-hour ride, and I'd roll in six and a half hours and be like, coach is not gonna be happy. Um but who cares? Because we just did like an awesome century with three cafe stops, and just like that's how I like to spend my Saturday. Um, and so and it just keeps keep finding more people, uh, and so the hours just keep getting easier, really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:36

One thing I learned from that, because I remember when that first started to happen, I was like, man, this kid can handle more than I than than I realized, right? And then it started to just be like, okay, you know, five hours, plus or minus, no real cap, go for it. And then it started to sprinkle in, be like, hey, go like really hard uh with the boys today, every once in a while. You know, and and actually some of your numbers, uh we still have some peak numbers coming from days like that where I just don't limit you, you know, give you some guardrails and stuff, but just like have at it. And I think that when you're coaching a like a developmental rider, there's that point where I think the coach or the athlete, probably around 17-ish, 18-ish, you just need to let them go just to see like what that capacity is. Because otherwise, I think you stayed limited.

SPEAKER_02: 33:25

Yeah, for sure. And like DC is like kind of a great place to do that because you've got all the group rides, um, and you can go and kind of uh bash your head in with your friends, um trying to take KOMs or like going for the the stupid long-range attack on the group ride. It's like I mean, I I try my hardest not to sprint during group rides because I know I can win sprints. Um and I don't know if I can win with like a long move or something like that, and so or just like after pulling everybody around. So that's definitely some of my favorite rides.

SPEAKER_00: 34:10

Yeah, so it's like on the group rides the strategy is work on your uh stuff that you're not as good at, right? Versus the stuff that you know you're good at. Yeah. And that's what's so beautiful about a group ride. It's it's a mock race scenario, but you get to there's no um the the bar is low, there's no expectation, right? So you mess it up, you get tired, you go back, you go to the back and then try again.

SPEAKER_02: 34:31

Yeah, and to be clear, these are race group rides, these aren't endurance group rides. For sure. You're not attacking the coffee ride unless there's a town sign.

SPEAKER_00: 34:42

Yeah, that is all of that is very true. But I I I do want to mention, I mean, we should say that you already mentioned, but the the DC area DMV is really special, and I didn't know this before I moved here, but there are just so many freaking group rides, like so many opportunities to go hard um with talented, fast people that I I do think that if you're a if you're a bike racer and if you're a junior, I mean it is it's a pretty solid place to grow up.

SPEAKER_02: 35:12

Yeah, it's it's incredible. I didn't realize it until I started looking for colleges, and I was like, I need like I would need people to ride with when I go to college, and I was like, what other places have scenes like this? And it was like you've got Boulder, some places in California, and like like in terms of like having a group ride every day of the week that you can like get like really get going hard on doesn't super exist in a lot of places.

SPEAKER_00: 35:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really unique from that standpoint. Um, so I think like in that way, I mean you you know you still come down from college, um, we still hit the noon ride every once in a while, and uh so so you're still East Coast based, uh, but when you I didn't think about this. This is uh the B script, by the way, here, uh Nathan. But do you remember when you were trying to decide which college to go to and you're looking at California versus Vermont? Remember what I told you?

SPEAKER_02: 36:08

No, not exactly. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01: 36:13

No, I just say no, I don't. Okay. There's a lot going on in that time.

SPEAKER_00: 36:18

That's true. There was a lot going on. But I so I remember telling you what a good friend took. I do remember. I do remember.

SPEAKER_02: 36:24

Yeah. All right. If you go out west, you got you can't stay out there long enough till you get soft, you gotta come back east or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 36:32

Exactly. So if you ever move west, move back before you get too soft. But he also said if you ever move east, move back before you get too hard.

SPEAKER_01: 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:41

Right? And so it but in that way, yeah. I mean, you were raised on the East Coast, and I say that, you know, it it's funny, but it's also true. Um, and having lived both West Coast and East Coast and growing up in the Midwest, I'd say there's a lot of truth to that. But I think that the reason I told you that was knowing where you grew up, how you grew up, seasons, the group ride, the gnarliness that is kind of the East Coast or the Beast Coast, uh as some mountain bikers like to call it. Um, like I was encouraging you to stay east in that way because there is there is uh uh I I felt like it was right, but I I couldn't tell you what to do, right? Yeah. Um and so I think I mean it's it's playing out because you know you still have good access to DC. I mean, there's a good scene up in Vermont, um, and it's shorter to Europe. So that's super helpful. Yeah, totally, totally. But I guess as I kind of like rip through some of the highlights here, would you say, you know, from junior till now, is there anything that stands out to you with how we evolve training or just like maybe a couple things that really worked for you that you'd want to share with uh our audience that's like, hey, this this really worked well for me, you could try it or leave it or or or something else?

SPEAKER_02: 37:57

Yeah, we already touched on it, but just finding that group that you have fun with. Um then a big part of me that like I I would say the biggest thing that motivates me to train is I like to win races. Um and so when I'm doing those intervals, I um I like to imagine myself in race scenarios. Um whether if if I'm doing 3030s, just like pretending that I'm following moves in races, or if I'm doing a long effort, pretending I'm like in a break or something, that really helped me, especially as a junior, like kind of visualize my my efforts um when I was doing intervals.

SPEAKER_00: 38:35

Yeah, yeah. I mean that's it's super helpful. In fact, I was asking um some of the girls on that Spain trip when we were on, I was like, hey, does any of you like picture like when you're climbing, does anybody picture someone to like emulate, you know, like on the bike? Would you would you say that you're just like picturing yourself like racing, or are you picturing like yourself as Tate? Or are you picturing yourself as as uh I don't know, uh name your favorite racer?

SPEAKER_02: 39:03

Usually I'm picturing myself. Um but when I actually when I'm doing hill sprints, like repeated hill sprints, I do think of Tate because he's the goat.

SPEAKER_00: 39:13

He's the goat, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's hard, it's hard to not, but yes, I think we all do it. We all do it. Um just make sure to be sprinting in your drops, right, Nathan? Yeah, for sure. Learn that one the hard way from you two. Um side note, I got stuck in that summaries. Nathan called me out publicly for sprinting in my tops. Even though it was an uphill sprint, I'm still sour about it. So speaking of hard effort, speaking of um power production and things like this, one of the questions that we had was you know, what is what's an emerging pros number look like? And so I'm just gonna read through and there's there's some fun uh like as I was going through, I was like, oh, this is fun because these these peak numbers of the past really couple years, they come out in various places. They come out at at races, they come out in training, they come out in testing. And I think what's so unique about that is you're not you, Nathan, you're not only producing your best power at a race. You're not only producing your best power on the six-hour cafe rides where you know you collabor yourself with your team, you know, your friends, your teammates. You're kind of doing it all, you can perform in all these different scenarios. So let me first start with 20 second sprint. Okay and Nathan's roughly 145 to 150 pounds, kind of depending on uh time of year where we're at and how much um heat training we're doing in Spain. So uh peak 20 second sprint was uh so 20 seconds, by the way. Not one second. 20 seconds was 1,070 watts or 16.8 watts per kilogram. And that was at Redland's stage race, stage three.

SPEAKER_02: 40:59

That was um on the Rico ride after that stage, actually.

SPEAKER_00: 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:05

Not the stage.

SPEAKER_01: 41:07

That was a time trial.

SPEAKER_00: 41:08

Yes. Um, so whether we edit this out or not, I looked at that, I'm like, it's not the stage. Like so we can we can talk about that, like what the hell happened?

SPEAKER_01: 41:20

We were just a one-up sprint with a teammate, and I just put out a crazy power number.

SPEAKER_00: 41:26

Crazy power number to the point where I'm like, like I know how to edit out bad data and stuff, and I like even and I remember when it happened, I was like, no, it's good data. And I even last night I was I spent about 10 minutes like going back through three years of data using the tools that I could to see if it was actually bad. I'm like, no, this is it. But I'm like, this was not the race.

SPEAKER_02: 41:45

It was like slightly uphill, it was with our sprinter, it was in front of Nima. It was perfect conditions.

SPEAKER_00: 41:53

Perfect conditions. So uh what I'm learning as a coach is I need to replicate these conditions to produce a sprint like this again and see what kind of progress we've made. Yeah. I'm gonna keep on going with your two-minute power because this was kind of bonkers. Um, two minutes at 546 watts, about eight watts per kilo. And that was on a six-hour ride with the boys, where I told you just go hard everyone's time.

SPEAKER_02: 42:15

I remember that one. I was trying to ride my good friend off the wheel.

unknown: 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:20

That's up in Vermont. Yeah. Uh okay, let's see if you can remember this one. Five minutes at 405 watts, 6.1 watts per kilo. And do you remember that one before I give any more descriptor?

SPEAKER_02: 42:34

Um, was that really field testing this this winter?

SPEAKER_00: 42:39

It was.

SPEAKER_02: 42:40

Yeah, it was. So I do remember it. I'm surprised that that's the peak.

SPEAKER_00: 42:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're going pretty good this winter. Uh I always uh for reference and those who have been listening to this podcast, I'm um you should test, in my opinion. If you're not testing to see where your limits are, what are you actually doing in your training, my opinion? Um, but you don't test all the time. You test maybe twice a year. Okay. Uh start of the year, tail end of the year, uh, see where you're at, see how how much progress you made. So at the start of 2025, yeah, five-minute VO2 max test solo. Uh Nathan went for it and and hit those hit those numbers five 405.

SPEAKER_02: 43:16

I had a really bad 20 minute the day before, so I was mad. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 43:21

Which is why we did this 20-minute effort um in March, because I was like, we I know it's better than what that was. So we did a 20-minute effort in March at 342 watts, and that's 5.0 watts per kilogram. And do you remember that one? Yeah, that was a drona. So the final number that we'll talk about, Nathan, is your 60-minute power, which you produced a new 60-minute power by five watts this year. But your previous best was 300 watts. It's for 60 minutes, and that was about 4.7 watts per kilo. And it ended up being like the most epic day on a bike that you had had, uh, I think in like 2024. It was the Rasputista gravel race. Do you remember? Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_02: 44:04

Uh yeah, unfortunately, very vividly I do. Um it was a really hard day on the gravel bike. Um kind of decided to do it on a whim to hang out with this girl and um did it and then just suffered all day um in this in this front group and and then died on the final climb too.

SPEAKER_00: 44:29

Because I feel like for three hours it was like 298 watts or something too. Because I mean it it was just long and hard all day, but I I guess I should ask, uh did it work out with the girl?

SPEAKER_02: 44:39

Yeah, it did. So I guess it was worth it. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_00: 44:45

Well, that's good. I mean, you did for the for the record, you pumped out 305 at uh national championships this past year um in the crit.

SPEAKER_02: 44:54

Yeah, shout out the Kelly boys for riding the front all day.

SPEAKER_00: 44:57

But uh overall, for for those kind of wondering what these numbers look like, they're good, right? I mean, they're good, but at the same time, they're not like the Tade Pagaccha ground, uh, you know, like earth-shattering stuff, and it's not like the true sprinter stuff. But when we when you heard Nathan say, you know, you know, he's a racer, and I and I said he's crafty, these numbers are big. They're big enough, but with with that racecraft, with uh continual kind of honing of of how to get it done on the bike, now you get that pro contract. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 45:31

And I think of it when you're being scouted or uh displaying yourself to other teams, you can be a power rider or results rider. Like what's going to be at the top of your race resume? And I'm definitely a results rider. Try to get those those ones stacked up at the top of the resume, um, and then kind of had this power numbers kind of off to the side.

SPEAKER_00: 45:55

Is there, I mean, kind of the shortest way that you can answer it. I mean, how did you develop that racecraft over time? Or is it just like a bunch of racing?

SPEAKER_02: 46:04

Uh yeah, a bunch of racing and group rides that I mean, just race simulations. I also love watching bike races. Um, and I'll watch it, and then I love the overhead cam. And I'll look at where this is especially for sprints, but like where riders are starting sprints from and where they're coming from. I love the way Tim Mullier floats the Peloton, and he comes from pretty far behind, and then I'll think about that when I'm in the Peloton and like where I want to be.

SPEAKER_00: 46:32

Tim Malir might be like the best looking sprinter, like the way he sprints, the way he floats. Like it's incredible. He gets it done. Did you ever have an aha moment in racing where you're just like, you know, you're watching Tim, you're watching your races, you're you're you're you're going into the next race. Did you have an aha moment where it's like, yeah, I I deserve to be here or I should be, I am a bike racer, or was it not until the contract was given to you?

SPEAKER_02: 47:02

Yeah, I don't really know if I can dial it down to one moment. Um I think I I kind of have this idea that is like I'll do a race and then by the next year I'll do a race and I'll just like be in the pack trying to finish it, and then by the next year I'm able to race it. So like this is kind of a long time ago in juniors at Armed Forces, which is our local like big crit um that all the pros come out to. Yeah, exactly. And the first year I remember just being in the pack and finishing it, and then the next year, I mean this is still talking two threes, but the next year I was able to be at the front and be a difference maker in that race, and just learning that like step by step I can like impact races and stuff like that. That's kind of it. Just like you're not gonna be there immediately, but just slowly you get there.

SPEAKER_00: 48:04

Yeah, and I think what's so like powerful about that answer is that number one, it's real, and number two, I don't know, it's just like so often there's not the aha or the breakout or the when you see a breakout result, it's usually years and years of going for that result. What you know, because if you don't follow bike racing super in-depth or anything like that, and you're just like the fan, you have to realize that all of these results are like really ground out over four, five, eight, ten years of you know, the continual pursuit of of perfection, essentially, uh uh for a bike race. And so uh you have to take that and say, too, like how do you how do you stay motivated and all this kind of stuff? I mean, it it truly is sort of uh an endgame of sorts with intrinsic motivation propelling you.

SPEAKER_02: 48:59

Yeah, and I think it's kind of hard to have that aha breakout moment in cycling. Like it's gonna be a slow build, like slow build no matter what. Like you look at even in World Tour ranks, you can be like, oh, like Skelmosa won Amstel Gold, he broke out this year, but then you look back, he's like, that guy's one tour Swiss, like he's like done many other things. Like that was not his breakout moment.

SPEAKER_00: 49:23

So in a in a sport like this, Nathan, um like you're of a younger generation than I, obviously, and you know, your generation is using a lot of AI, chat GPT to do a bunch of bunch of stuff, right? Do you think that you could use AI or Chat GPT to create a training plan to get you where you are today?

SPEAKER_02: 49:52

Absolutely not. Um I always think of when I'm using AI is that I have to know what the answer is or I want what I want the answer to be. Um when I ask it a question, and if I asked it to give me a training plan, I would not have the ability to vet it and know like that is smart, or that's not smart, or that's way too much, that's not enough. Um so I don't think that and also it just doesn't have that personal touch. Um I can't get on a weekly call with ChatGBT. Um my chat my ChatGBT can't text me. Um it's good to remember you're human after you do pretty poorly in a race. Um that's just happened recently. Yeah. ChatGBT can't drop you on group rides, so it's how it is.

SPEAKER_00: 50:47

It is how it is. However, I don't I don't know if I can still drop you on a group ride.

SPEAKER_01: 50:51

Um Yeah, we're talking long ago.

SPEAKER_00: 50:53

Yeah, yeah. Uh one one year I did. But um but yeah, and I didn't, you know, honestly, I didn't know the your answer um to that. I created an outline and I had that on there for Nathan. But the reason I ask it is because I think it can be a good starting point, but I I think Nathan hit the nail on the head with just like you have to probably know something about that content before you can even make a decision about what is put out um from the inquiry. And I think in this case, especially when it comes to becoming your best, right, and and developing a race craft, is like when I look at Nathan, it's not only the years that he spent, you know, watching race videos, getting to the big races, spending time and money and grinding it out in Europe. It's not just him, and it's not just the coach, you know, building some training programs and hoping we crush it. It's it's his director, it's his teammates, it's his friends, it's his girlfriend, it's his sisters, it's his the the really the true director sportif of team QSAC, Tina, your mom, driving the ship. We got Pat that is uh probably the the king swaneer that I've ever seen in my life. Like you have a network like beyond what I've seen of any family to help you propel. And I think that if there is you know a magic that that that has been you know curated for the Q6, is it's like that network. It's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_02: 52:24

Yeah, for sure. And chat GBT cannot provide that. That's true.

SPEAKER_00: 52:29

Not yet, anyway. Uh yeah. So I I guess you know, with that said, final question is you know, if if there are juniors listening to this or college kids listening to this, or you know, really anybody could just like wondering, well, you know, how do I make that network or or something like that? But especially to the younger uh crowd, like what are some of the other things like off the bike to consider when it's like going pro? Because you, I mean, you're in college, you have you have friends in college, you have a girlfriend, you have your education, your degree, like how do you factor all that into uh screw it, I'm gonna go play bikes in Europe?

SPEAKER_02: 53:08

There's yeah, there's a lot to cover in that question. I'd say off the bike is super important stuff. Um school, I mean no one's gonna be a pro cyclist forever, except for maybe Wout. Um but um He's got a forever conscious. He does, so he could be if he wanted. Um but yeah, you're not gonna be a cyclist forever, so school so important. Um I'm really focusing on making sure that I get that dial before I fully commit to full-time plan bikes for a living. And then yeah, just making sure you maintain um everything else that's important to you, and make sure you're like doing what's fun. Like, as I said earlier, like I find winning races fun, and so I do what I can to have fun, and so that's the training, that's the preparation, but also just don't take it too seriously. Like, it is supposed to be fun. There have been points where I have like found myself in holes, and I'm like, I just need to chill out and have fun, and then I'll go smash some intervals and like pretend to drop the entire field during my intervals, and that's fun. So, yeah, that would be it.

SPEAKER_00: 54:32

Yeah, it's it's I mean, truly it it has been uh incredible to be on this journey with you, Nathan. I mean, I mean, I'm so proud and honored to to be your coach. Um, and I I truly just like hope the best, you know, for the years to come because I mean you're you're you're the athlete, like I said, that all the directors want on their team. You're the athlete that the coach wants to coach. Uh you're even the kid that the parent wants, right? Like just smart kid getting after it. Messes up every once in a while, but we all do. So uh it you know, I mean, chapeau to you. I mean, you've uh you've hit milestones, but you ain't done yet. So I'm just I'm honored to interview you here and uh and see where 2026 takes you.

SPEAKER_02: 55:21

Yeah, I can't wait. It's been it's been a great ride, and I can't see where can't wait to see where it goes.

SPEAKER_00: 55:26

Heck yeah, man. So for those listening who are are now just like super fans of Nathan Cusack, uh, if they want to follow you and your future story, I mean, where do we find you? Either on the socials or I don't know, uh do you got a YouTube page? What's uh how do we follow you?

SPEAKER_02: 55:45

It's pretty much just Nathan Cusack on Instagram. Um yeah, no socials. Sorry, Strava nerds. I'm private and you're not getting that follow. Um but that's it.

SPEAKER_00: 55:59

Awesome. And you're not uh you're not on the TikTok game either? No. Uh stick to reels. Fair enough. Fair enough, man. Well, I will uh you know, I've kept you long enough, and uh you know what, thank you for taking the time to to be on the on the podcast. I'll let you get back to uh bikes and books and or I don't know, watching some more races, whatever you're gonna do next. But Nathan, thanks for the time.

SPEAKER_02: 56:24

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 56:26

All right, ciao. Thanks for joining us on the Time Crunch Cyclist Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you want even more actionable training advice, head over to trainright.com backslash newsletter and subscribe to our free weekly publication. Each week you'll get in depth training content that goes beyond what we cover here on the podcast that'll help you take your training to the next level. That's all for now. Until next time, train hard, train smart, or train right.