The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast by CTS

Can Rucking With A Weighted Vest Make You A Stronger Cyclist?

• CTS • Season 5 • Episode 272

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OVERVIEW
Almost anywhere you go these days, you're likely to see someone walking, running, or climbing stairs wearing a weighted vest. Popularized by Crossfit boxes, mixed martial arts gyms, and boot camp-style exercise programs, “rucking” is a new name for the old concept of an “overloaded training intervention”. The question we get is whether training with a weighted vest (off the bike) will improve cycling performance. CTS Pro Coach Sarah Scozzaro, one of our top strength and conditioning coaches, breaks down the details of whether weighted training works for cyclists. 

Topics Covered In This Episode:

  • Weighted Vests: Are they effective for:
    • Increase Core Strength?
    • Improve Strength-Endurance?
    • Increase Bone Density?
    • Improve VO2 Max?
    • Increase Motivation?
  • History of overloaded training interventions in cycling
  • Separating strength from endurance training
  • How to use weighted vests safely 
  • How much weight to carry

Resources

Guest Bio:

Sarah Scozzaro is a CTS Pro Coach who specializes in strength training and  ultrarunning. A coach within the CTS High Performance Program, she is on the performance teams for Western States Champions Katie Schide and Abby Hall.  Sarah has her Masters's degree in Exercise Science with a concentration in performance enhancement and injury prevention. She has a long list of qualifications and certifications after her name, including being a National Strength and Conditioning Association certified personal trainer (NSCA-CPT) and National Academy of Sports Medicine performance enhancement specialist (NASM-PES).

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Speaker 1:

From the team at CTS. This is the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast, our show dedicated to answering your training questions and providing actionable advice to help you improve your performance even if you're strapped for time. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford, and I'm one of the over 50 professional coaches who make up the team at CTS. In each episode, I draw on our team's collective knowledge, other coaches and experts in the field to provide you with the practical ways to get the most out of your training and ultimately become the best cyclist that you can be. Now on to our show. Now on to our show. Welcome back, time Crunch fans. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford.

Speaker 1:

Today's topic weighted vests for increased strength, endurance and performance. Not gonna lie, I didn't see this topic coming on this podcast, but we've had a few listeners write in to ask about it. I've found out that I have athletes that I coach using weighted vests or rucking with these goals in mind, and I think that there's some misinformation out there when it comes to loading your body and what that does in training versus loading your body in the gym for strength gain. So this is a thing in the ultra running community as well. So I turned to the expert in all things strength and ultra endurance. To help explain this, cts coach Sarah Scazzaro. Sarah, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me. This is great. I'm excited to have this conversation. It's a one that comes up quite frequently for myself as well having this conversation with you, so by uh.

Speaker 1:

So, that being said, I think that this information is going to be super good. But you know, I said welcome back, sarah, because you've been on the show a couple of times now. But for listeners who haven't caught you on on previous shows and don't know you like I do, could you give us a quick intro on who you are, what you do and I don't know what's your favorite? Uh, what's your favorite brand of weightlifting equipment?

Speaker 2:

Oh ooh, I've never been asked that. Sarah Scazzaro, I'm one of the pro coaches over on the ultra training or ultra running I should say side of the group Been with the company for almost six years now, so time's flying when you're having fun.

Speaker 1:

Time does fly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my niche and kind of what I really am into, and originally when I even started with the company. Strength for my endurance athletes is really, really important to me, so I make sure that it's something that is very integral and part of what I program for my athletes myself. I don't know, I think that's about it Vanilla, love chocolate and vanilla. So anyways, favorite brand of equipment. I know everybody wants me to say Rogue, because Rogue's kind of like the brand. I also really like a company called Again Faster.

Speaker 1:

Again Faster Okay.

Speaker 2:

They put out really quality stuff at decent prices and I found them really lovely to work with, no affiliation. So excellent.

Speaker 1:

Not looking for sponsorship, but looking for sponsorship looking to share good information.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there you go. There you go we, and, that being said, we are brand neutral on this podcast. So anything that we talk about, including weightlifting equipment or weighted vests or whatever uh, we have no brand affiliations. Also, as a quick transition as we get going and this is a little disclaimer and kind of high-level qualifier for this episode is, this is not meant to be either pro or anti-weighted vest messaging. It is simply to get you, our listeners, good information about what drives a stimulus for an adaptation versus marketing bullshit. So let's use that as a launching pad for today's topic and way to best. They are claimed to do all of these things, sarah, and then I'll turn over to you to help disseminate what this means. So they are claimed to increase core strength, improve strength, endurance, increase bone density, improve VO2 max similar to altitude and I will link to an article that stated that and it also can increase motivation and a whole host of other things. So, sarah, can you walk us through the hype versus reality of some of these claims?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, where to start? Do we want to go most controversial to least controversial?

Speaker 1:

Wherever you'd like to start.

Speaker 2:

We can just start with the first one I've got here the increase of core strength. So in reality we can't argue that there's going to be some minimal core strength benefits. Of course, anytime you load your body and you move through space you're going to challenge the body in a different way. It's going to challenge your core to stabilize. It's going to challenge to be low responsive, at a very low level actually. We'll kind of get to the loading here later. It's repetitive but it's not targeted enough to make any meaningful improvement with core strength. It takes away like you're not really dealing with anti-rotation, you're not really dealing with a lot of things that you're, you know you're meant to do in terms of quality core training. I should say. So can it increase core strength? I have yet to see a study and please correct me if I'm wrong if you've come across one that shows a very appreciable definition of core strength increase, I think it's better than nothing, but I wouldn't turn to this if you're trying to increase your core strength.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1:

I mean, some of the stuff that I saw that claimed these benefits were very short-term studies and also taking well, let's just face it like either an aging athlete or like a feeble athlete, like an endurance athlete that does never load, and then they throw a vest on them and then they see improvement in two weeks, which, again, you just look at how a system works and if you haven't been loading and if you haven't had that stimulus and then you load it, you will.

Speaker 1:

Especially with strength training that we've covered on this episode before, a lot of these improvements are very quick, they're neuromuscular and can happen in two to four weeks. After that, though, the load needs to be progressive over time to keep on pushing you and that's where a weighted vest really doesn't keep on loading you and keep on doing these things. So if there's anything, it's because you haven't been moving or stressing your body. In a way. You add, a little bit of stress can go a little bit away, and then you're like oh, I'm a little sore, oh, I feel this, but it's just like because you're finally doing something.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that's the key. I think what a weighted vest does for a lot of people. Maybe we should target this to a lot of, like you kind of mentioned before, the demographic that is being targeted, or demographics, are older people, peri postmenopausal women. It's being targeted as kind of this thing, this fix-all, this cure-all for these populations, and a lot of those populations I'm going to really overgeneralize here tend to not do much in movement, especially like an older population. So give them any new stimulus. They're going to see some improvements. They're going to see some changes, like you said, very short term, mostly neuromuscular. They're not going to be something they can usually continue to build off with sustainably, because and we can kind of get to this, I'm sure, in a moment of how much you should safely load with a weighted vest and to the point of there's going to be diminishing returns if you start to go above that in terms of like safety and body mechanics and things like that.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, and I want to come back to what I said by calling endurance athletes feeble athletes, what I mean by that is feeble high strength athletes and the reason I mean I am in this category because I sit at a desk for the majority of the time and then I go ride my bike real hard and for long periods of time.

Speaker 1:

Then I come back and sit at my desk and I too can even benefit from more strength work in my life, which I've had in the past kind of go hit and miss it. So, like I am right here in the need of better strength and coordination, all this kind of stuff. So for our listeners, who maybe got offended by me calling you a feeble strengthy endurance athlete, I'm not taking jabs at you, I'm taking jabs at us. And with that being said, though, improved strength endurance is one of the claims for weighted vests. Can you talk about what strength endurance is, why weighted vests may do that or may not? And it's pretty adjacent to what we just talked about with, like, if the stimulus has been so low that you add a little bit and there's a little gain, cool, but now you need to keep it going.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think this is um, especially on my side of things with the ultra running community. Um, recently there have been some performances at events, notably UTMB were the winners, both in the male and female category. Their coach is very well known for using weighted hikes, vests, packs, whatever you want to call it as part of some of his workouts. You can't argue that obviously his athletes got results. However, what I think people take from that, they extrapolate from that, is they think, oh, that is the key, that is a strength workout I need to be doing, when those athletes are also from the mouth of that coach, doing strength workouts. This is done as a muscular endurance workout, which is different than a strength workout.

Speaker 2:

So I think there's like that separation that, whereas like a weighted vest in the use of ultra running to help with you know, causes extra load on the hips, the legs. It helps you tolerate stress over time, which is very common in my sport Hiking up mountains for long periods of time with a pack on. That's different than going and doing heavy squats or deadlifts or things like that. That's actually going to increase strength versus muscular endurance. So it's a sport specific conditioning vehicle versus a strength building vehicle and I think that gets confused very easily because you're like but I'm getting stronger at climbing Hills, yes, sports specific.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yeah, and that sports specific message is something that we'll talk about more here in just a couple of minutes, because we have something similar for for all the cyclists listening to this and they're like, wait, you're talking all about running yeah, we do, too in gravel, mountain bike and ultra endurance things. So let's talk about like packs and weightedness as it pertains to cycling here in just a minute, but I just want to touch on increased bone density as well as improved VO2 max when it comes to training with the way the best.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so the thing that I okay I will preface this by saying anything that gets somebody moving, it makes me happy.

Speaker 2:

I think we've talked about this online, so I'm never going to discourage somebody from picking something up that is getting them moving, because that's going to have health benefits.

Speaker 2:

My issue is when people are taking something thinking that it's going to be the cure to their problems or the solution to the questions they have, in this case, like bone density, and because weighted vests are targeted towards peri and postmenopausal women with the whole idea of building bone density, and so my argument with that is there's going to be very, very modest stimulation to the bone with a weighted vest. I recently saw a study and I'll try to find it here so you can share it as well of women specifically women, because this was the demographic they were testing wore a weighted vest for several hours a day around the house doing their things, going for walks around the house. There was little to zero change in their bone density or bone turnover. In order to get that, while wearing a vest, they had to do impact work jumps, plyos, things like that. Okay, how safe is that for most people to be using a loaded weighted vest and then doing plyometric training.

Speaker 1:

So then we get into a whole, especially for the aging demographic.

Speaker 2:

Exactly so. Just because something can actually have an impact eventually using certain parameters doesn't mean it's the safe vehicle to do it. And I think most people just think I'm going to put on this vest and go for a hike and my bone density? It's the impact, it's the loading that's going to cause that and the vest simply does not provide enough of that. I'm not taking away from the fact that going out for a walk is a good thing. I'm not taking anything away from that. But if your design is to get increased bone density, there are far better ways to accomplish that than putting on a weighted vest and then oh go ahead.

Speaker 1:

I was just going to say. I mean, a couple of things come to mind is just like, if anybody's wondering, well, how do I stimulate bone growth, it is generally loading the body in a heavy way that actually like stresses the bone, it wiggles it, and then that forms, or that provides a stimulus for osteoblasts and osteoclasts to come in and reshape and restructure the bone. That's how you do it. And then if you say, well, I'm an aging, uh, like, like a middle-aged woman with, you know, pre-osteoporosis, like I don't want. That sounds unsafe too, or the weighted vest probably is better, I would say the blanket statement of you should do heavy back squats or you should wear a weighted vest. That's poor advice. What I'm saying is probably get with a personal trainer like Sarah or somebody that's local, that has eyes on you, so they can guide you through in a healthy, individualized training sort of way to get after this, as opposed to buying the weighted vest, because the influencer that your daughter showed you on Instagram said that you should.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, exactly that. And there are many, many ways to load a squat and there are many, many ways to load movements like you just alluded to. So I think people think, oh my God, I've never lifted a weight in my life and now I have to go do a heavy back squat or a big deadlift. That's not safe, I don't feel comfortable doing that. It's like, oh no, no, there are many different shades of strength training and getting that, helping to get that accomplished.

Speaker 2:

Just don't think that your weighted vest is going to be the singular way that you do that, because it's just not. I think it's disingenuous and dispelling anything. I would like to dispel that because I think it does a disservice to people, because I think they think, oh, I'm going to do this, so I don't need to strength train, and then they don't get the bone density built up like they're hoping and they've spent all this time doing this activity. That really didn't help their end goal and, spoiler alert, most women and, dare say, men we need to be building bone density as we get older, or at least trying to maintain what we have.

Speaker 1:

And that's the misinformation. It's the over-promised claims based on weak evidence, to say this vest will do X Y Z, when in reality it's a progressive overload, individual training program that will get that done Exactly. I think VO2 max would probably be the last thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Does a weighted vest improve VO2 max? Sarah?

Speaker 2:

No, no, no, it can make. No, I mean, it doesn't.

Speaker 1:

But it's not similar to altitude training.

Speaker 2:

No, imagine that. Wouldn't that be amazing if it was no? Pretty sick so a very short, simplistic answer is no, it doesn't. Can it challenge the body in certain ways? It's just added resistance. It's not hypoxic adaptation, there's no stimulus. Just because you're breathing harder because you've got a weighted vest on you does not equate altitude training. And so if it were this simple and I wish, wouldn't it be great if we could just say put on this weighted vest and you'll get all of these things, all of these benefits.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but it's, it's. It's just the same thing as like take this pill and you'll get all these benefits, Right, it's like. I haven't seen anything. Yeah, just, I haven't seen anything that works that way. No, no, we want it.

Speaker 2:

Oh, exactly. And again, if you enjoy it and kind of our last point of motivation, if you enjoy it, if it's fun, if it makes you feel good, if you do it with a group of friends and it's social and you can do it safely, I will never take that away from somebody, but know what you are accomplishing when you wear a weighted vest and what you're not accomplishing or achieving. And yeah, so anything else there with those topics, I know we've got a couple other loaded points.

Speaker 1:

We should dive into some of the weighted vests on the specificity of training, but I think to your point. What you said is like, again, not to um, you know, poo poo. Anybody's like stokeness for a weighted vest is. It's similar to like a I don't know an expensive wheel set for a cyclist. Like if it, if you have this thing that gets you out the door and gets you going, okay, cool. But just know that if you did intervals and did your long ride and all this kind of stuff and you had the wheels that you have right now versus the $4,000 wheel set, you you'll get better adaptation, you'll get better training. Combine those two and away we go Right. So if it is a motivational thing and makes you feel cool to pick up the rucking sack or the weighted vest or whatever else, okay cool. But just like, take the information that Sarah just provided with you. Go, start low, go slow, because there's some ligaments and tendon issues too that come. That comes as a increased risk if you just load too quick and do too much.

Speaker 2:

Um, so oh, absolutely, and you know, kind of coming, and I'd love to hear more about what you alluded to earlier with, like the cycling side of things, with like weighted packs and whatnot, but like from an ultra running side of things, athletes there will be athletes that are doing like weighted. They're loading their vest up and doing these weighted mountain hikes and whatnot. That's sports specific. That's not what we're talking about here. That is getting a muscular endurance, sports specific adaptation. It's all the other things that these weighted vest gurus are claiming that these magical little objects do, that just simply aren't backed by science.

Speaker 1:

little objects do that just simply aren't backed by science. That's it. So not backed by science. Let's talk about sports specificity, and it is certainly more like in the fitness and running world as far as using weighted vest to do a training thing and get some sort of result. What I didn't know is that the weighted vest market is in 2024, it was $205 million. So, again, this is much bigger than I thought. It's estimated to be a $350 million industry in 2025. And then finally I looked this up is the hydration pack market is around 400 million. So I mean it is creeping up on the hydration pack market, which is that's a big thing in our world, right? It's like well, everybody's using, you know, hydration packs. Most ultra people are using a hydration pack. So I put that in kind of like reference because when I read that I was like, okay, this is a thing, okay, we should, I should listen to our people and I should do this podcast. So here we are and I think it is important to separate sports specificity loading as it pertains to putting something on your body or your bike, versus doing it in training to provide some sort of stimulus separate from the strength training stimulus to increase muscle size, ligament density, bone density and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

So now to just a little snippet on the running side of things. Coop has a good article. I don't think we need to go super deep on this, but it kind of walks through a very logical, sound way of saying okay, if you're going to have a pack, it should be roughly what like 5% of the body weight, because once you start to load more, the body moves differently and that could increase a risk of injury. Do I have that Correct? Yes, okay, and that it like so. Then it's like okay, if it should be around 5%, how about six or 7% or what? So where it gets to be a problem is around 10% of your body weight. Then you start to kind of move all over the place, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, precisely, yeah, yeah. And for most in my field, my side of things, most ultra runners in an event, I'm not talking necessarily about fast packing or anything like that, but for most hundred milers and below in the ultra distance niche, you're not going to generally be carrying more than 10% of your body weight at any point. Anyways, we have eight stations Right.

Speaker 2:

We've got buffets out there you pay for the buffet, all 100 miles of it, um, and so loading more than that. I think, unfortunately, in society in general, but especially when it comes to, like endurance sports, more is more, more is better, more is if. If 5% works, 10% must be good. If 10% is good, what about 15%? How high can I go? How much can I load? And it gets to a point, like you said, it's diminishing returns where you're not going to be getting really any benefit and you're just going to be starting to increase the rate of injury or something happening. Um, because you're taking this like, say, overly packed pack or vest and going out and doing 10, 15, 20 miles. That's way more stimulus than you'd be getting in any strength session and it's really not even loading the body that. You know what I mean. Think about your volume here and then trying to move and how you have to change your biomechanics and it just sets you up for a lot of potential for injury without a lot of reward.

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay. So on the cycling side of things, I haven't found, we haven't put on an article, I haven't found there's not much research. I mean, you think about all the variables that go into, like a cycling weightedness and what is the optimization of this? I't know, maybe silica and maybe dylan johnson have, I don't know. They do like very marginal gain type stuff like that. But I will say high level and just from like coaching people for a long time in conjunction with what is existing out there on the internet of things, um, if you're gonna carry weight on your body and on your bike in the race, you should do it in training, okay. So again, like that's just sports specificity and we're going to for cycling, we distribute the weight between a pack and the bike. One company out there I think it's uh, you sweet, uh, they did. They come out with a no dancing monkey thing for a while. That was like their marketing play where they had this like unique strap combination so that the pack wouldn't like flop all over the place.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and that's usually associated with either a poor pack or too much weight in it. So it's just like moving around. And so if you, if any cyclists, have brought way too much stuff on the group ride or the race or whatever, and you're just like moving all around. That's what we're talking about too, in the way of like you get to a point where it's just like too much and it's you inefficiently move. Okay. The other thing is like for a lot of Leadville people, because there's aid stations and it's so well serviced and all this kind of stuff, I tell most of my Leadville athletes go bottles only, ditch the pack why you take that weight off. I increase speed. So you have to, depending on the nature of the race itself. You got to think about this weighted NIS advantage being also a disadvantage in some degree too. So, just on the high level, it's like if you're going to carry it in the race, you know, carry it in training, but then start to work with how much do you actually need to carry and then distribute it. Distribute it between, uh, you know, person and bike, because this rolls back to maybe even like project 98.

Speaker 1:

I remember, uh, chris and griffey and a bunch of other coaches talking about how they tried to add weight to the rider or the bike, um to to. This was like on the track uh, to get more power production over time. Spoiler alert it didn't really work. In fact, when they put it on the, on the rider, that's themselves, it was just super awkward. They couldn't drive the bike, they couldn't handle the bike.

Speaker 1:

When they loaded the, the, the the bike with like um, I think it was like lead weight in the bottles. They could get going a little bit better, but then and then they took it off and they had this sensation of being faster, but they weren't faster. And that's a key element, because in the cycling world too, is like we ride our heavier bike in the winter right, but it's usually like the less expensive bike that we don't carry. You know about getting wet and all this, but then we go on our fast bike. You know, come the spring and summer and we feel faster. Unless you've been well, unless you've been controlling all of the elements perfectly or training really well, you're not going to get that much faster from riding a heavier bike necessarily.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a. It's a lot of perception. You know it's riding that heavier. Taking out your steel stallion in the wintertime and then getting onto your carbon bike in the spring is going to feel significantly different, I imagine. So you're going to feel a lot faster, a lot lighter, a lot more nimble. Same with ultra running you put on a heavy pack and you do your training and during your race you're going to be like, oh, I feel so light and springy. And again I do want to preface we're not talking about, like military selection, rucking people, like that's a different category. So anybody listening that's like oh, but what about rucks for a military Different, different category? We're talking ultra running and cycling right now, with all of these opinions and takes and anti-science debunking.

Speaker 1:

Exactly. But you know this, this concept of like overloaded training, which is what this is. It's nothing new under the sun. If we were, I don't know go back to the eighties when we had like ankle weights.

Speaker 2:

I feel called out Adam.

Speaker 1:

Hey, no names shall be named, but baseball with, like, heavier bats, uh, heavier clubs, and golf and all this kind of stuff. So you, you practice or use these heavier things so that the, the one that you use on game day, is lighter ankle weights I mean, I think that's been debunked and caused a lot of injuries and so doing so, I think you have to just be really careful about loading the body in a weird way when it comes to endurance and repetitive movement versus in the gym and my main and don't need to go further than that, because I think it's it is out there. So my main point with this is like, if we're going to load and if the goal is to gain strength, to increase bone density, to improve velocity of movement, my advice is to separate your endurance training from your strength training and work on strength, velocity and bone density and all these goals in the gym, and then we do our sport for endurance. Would you agree with that, sarah?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely 100%. Okay, yes, excellent, same page.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so for the next five hours we'll talk about how to do that. Now I think, like just give me a very high level, because we're going to do a tag along episode to this where we do talk about how to organize strength training with an endurance program throughout the year, but maybe give us a little spoiler alert of how that would look like just with one of your athletes, how you separate that and how you kind of get away from I don't know some super sports specific thing in the gym and we say, oh, we don't need to do that because we get enough workout running on the trails or something like this.

Speaker 2:

Oh, are you talking about how folks say, oh, I don't need to do any leg training because I do enough running and I run up mountains. So there, yeah, so, yeah, I hear that a lot Running up mountains will make you better at running up mountains, but it's not necessarily going to give you the same strength gains, bone density, power, all of those things that you can get via strength training in the gym and actual like. Again, separating endurance training versus strength training, I love them both. Let's find a way to make them both work in your programming. But saying that a weighted vest is going to give you strength or that running up mountains is going to give you strength, both are unfair. They're both. You know you. They give you some specificity to your sport, but you're not necessarily building overall human strength. Yes, so I don't know if that was the answer to your question, but that's when I it's yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I mean, it certainly is, and I think, like in a roundabout way, however we can say it that hits home with a lot of people is if you can compartmentalize endurance and strength training two separate things but if you balance it and weave it in the right way, you will have the best combination of performance in your sport as well as, like health, longevity durability, durability exactly as a human being, and I think that that is the main message that I want everybody to just realize.

Speaker 1:

When it comes to endurance and strength training and we're going to talk more about that in the next episode, but bottom line here today, with weighted vests and its application to endurance sport, I would say I wouldn't use it personally. I wouldn't use it personally. There's nothing magical with a weighted vest and if your goals are strength, you know, increased strength, increased bone density and all the things that we talked about you're better off doing that in the gym and then doing your sport and doing your endurance separately. So anything else that you want to add to that, sarah.

Speaker 2:

No, I think that sums it up perfectly. If you like, doing it, great, but know why you're, know what it's accomplishing and what it's not, and just be honest with that about yourself. So, yeah, beautifully put.

Speaker 1:

Excellent. Well, thank you, Sarah, and we will talk all about strength training and endurance training in our next episode. See you soon. Thanks for joining us on the time crunch cyclist podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Thanks for joining us on the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you want even more actionable training advice, head over to trainrightcom backslash newsletter and subscribe to our free weekly publication. Each week you'll get in-depth training content that goes beyond what we cover here on the podcast. That'll help you take your training to the next level. That's all for now. Until next time, train hard, train smart, train right.

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