The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast by CTS

Training and Development Tips for Junior Cyclists (and Parents!)

• CTS • Season 5 • Episode 252

Share episode

OVERVIEW

If you or your child is interested in racing bikes (road, mountain, cyclocross, track) as an under-18 competitor, this is the podcast for you! CTS Coach Adam Pulford is one of the top coaches to Junior and U23 Cyclists in the United States. Much of this work is through the DC Devo Cycling Team in Washington, D.C. In Episode 252 of "The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast", Adam is joined by Chris Hardee, Justin Mauch, and Ryan McKinney of DCDevo to answer listener questions on how the development pathway works in cycling, how to get started, and what to look for in a development program.

TOPICS COVERED

  • Age-specific aspects of training junior cyclists
  • How many hours should junior cyclists train?
  • How do you find a good junior program?
  • What to look for in a junior development program
  • Cyclocross and High School Mountain Bike as entry point
  • Should your kid be riding/racing with grown men/women?

ASK A QUESTION FOR A FUTURE PODCAST

LINKS/RESOURCES

// General Recommendations by Age (hours per year):
- Under 12 (U12):
   Volume: ~100-150 hours/year
   Weekly Average: ~2-4 hours/week
- Ages 13-14 (U14):
   Volume: ~150-250 hours/year
   Weekly Average: ~4-6 hours/week
- Ages 15-16 (U16):
   Volume: ~250-400 hours/year
   Weekly Average: ~6-10 hours/week
- Ages 17-18 (U18/Juniors):
  Volume: ~400-600 hours/year (competitive juniors)
  Weekly Average: ~10-12 hours/week
  Elite or highly competitive juniors could range up to ~600-800 hours/year

GUESTS

Chris Hardee, Justin Mauch, and Ryan McKinney of DCDevo

HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform

GET FREE TRAINING CONTENT

Join our weekly newsletter

CONNECT WITH CTS

Website: trainright.com
Instagram: @cts_trainright
Twitter: @trainright
Facebook: @CTSAthlete

Speaker 1:

From the team at CTS. This is the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast, our show dedicated to answering your training questions and providing actionable advice to help you improve your performance even if you're strapped for time. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford, and I'm one of the over 50 professional coaches who make up the team at CTS. In each episode, I draw on our team's collective knowledge, other coaches and experts in the field to provide you with the practical ways to get the most out of your training and ultimately become the best cyclist that you can be. Now on to our show. Now onto our show.

Speaker 1:

Junior cycling is something that is near and dear to my heart. It's fun at times, challenging at times, yet it seems to be rewarding all the time. Now, most of you listening right now are not juniors. So why am I taking a whole episode on this topic? Well, because some of you asked for it. Like many of the topics and questions covered on this podcast, it's from our audience reaching out to learn more about something. Recently, we've had several inquiries about juniors training programs, how to find a good developmental program and when it's appropriate to start racing. So I'm pretty solid on the coaching and physiology side of things for junior stuff, but the developmental aspect is a much bigger picture. It takes a village to do it right, and a giant part of that village is the parents themselves. It's that family unit. Now the other large part of that village are the directors and coaches that work on these programs, getting the athletes to the races and getting them the support that they need when it matters most. I couldn't think of any better village people to help answer these questions than the ones I work with on the DC Devo Race Academy. So I have recorded a podcast with them ahead of time. Their names are Chris Hardy Sr, justin Mock and Ryan McKinney.

Speaker 1:

I recorded this ahead of time and then I did this intro just afterwards because I didn't know exactly what I was going to get when I recorded with them. You'll see that they are just a mix of amazing people all together. We went a little long. The goal is to shape it down, so it's not going to be super long. The end product I'm not too sure what it is right now as I read this intro to you, but here's a few things that and a few reasons why I think that this podcast and this episode is so important.

Speaker 1:

Because, number one, kids are the future generation of the sport and we want to see them flourish. If you have kids, it's good to know the options and opportunities out there for programs and proper development in this sport. Now, even if you don't have kids, you may learn a thing or two if these juniors show up on your group ride or you start racing with them at some local race. And lastly, at least the way I coach juniors up until they're around 17 or 18 years old coach juniors up until they're around 17 or 18 years old.

Speaker 1:

They look very similar to a time crunched athlete in terms of their volume, uh per uh per week, and their total annual hours. Okay, so we may be able to tease out some training tips for anybody listening to this podcast. So, with that being said, uh, let's get into the show, let's have you learn who these directors are and let's learn more about junior racing programs. So, chris, can you tell us how DC Devo Race Academy started and what is Project?

Speaker 2:

2028? As a project of the DC Velo Cycling Club in the DC area, which is one of the largest, most established clubs in the region, and so the idea back in 2018 was to start and support a junior team. Dc Velo is generally an established master's club, so for two years it was the DC Velo junior team established masters club so for two years it was the DC Velo junior team. And then we wanted to create an identity for the junior racers to have their own team and their own, their own kit, like, like and to and to mimic some of the established teams, the top teams in the United States, like Hot Tubes, lux and others. At the time, we had, just by luck and through the great grassroots programs in the DC area like Rock Creek Velo, baltimore Youth Cycling. We had a group of very talented junior boys at the time, so they formed the first group of DC Velo, which then became DC Diva Riders, and we recruited from riders that they knew generally within the Pennsylvania and DC area and immediately had significant success at the national level, winning the 15-16 national championships. Then we also had a group of really talented young girls who had grown up in these same programs the Rock Creek Velo, catherine Sarkisov, and then her younger sister, alyssa, lydia, and then Lydia's brother, nathan. These are all riders who had grown up training together and racing together. They are extraordinary riders. They've won multiple national championships.

Speaker 2:

Cyclocross road racing have done extremely well in Europe. They've been consistently on the US national team and then those riders just based on how great those riders are boys, and has ended up being the top junior girls team in the country. So right now I think we have half of the US national team coming from our team and the world's team. So this year we won every national championship. The boys are also incredible.

Speaker 2:

For the boys there's more of an opportunity for the 17 and 18 boys. There are other programs like Hot Tubes, ef, cycling. We have relationships with those teams. We're not proprietary about our riders. We've had riders who are 15, 16 boys that come through our program and then they go to EF, like Jacob Hines from Baltimore. Luca went to Hot Tubes and we don't mind that because those teams have more resources to support European racing for the boys than we do. We do that for the girls and that's the national and international focus is really a focus for us on the girls program, but we support the boys just as well. So that's the origin. It was a master's, established, well-resourced master's team in this area, looking to create a national level platform for the top regional junior cyclists, which has then expanded to be more of a national program, particularly on the girls' side.

Speaker 1:

I want to say thanks everybody for joining us. Can we just go quick around the horn of who we have on this call, and that's Ryan McKinney, justin Mock and Chris Hardy. And Chris, because I'm starting with you on the first question just make a quick intro of who you are, what your role is on the team and what your day job is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my name is Chris Hardy. I'm one of the managers, along with Ryan and, I guess, justin, what are you? Director sportif? The three of us run the team.

Speaker 2:

And Ryan and I were involved in starting the team, even Ryan before me, I think. I joined a year after he did. I have, along with all these guys, a long background in competitive cycling from back in the 90s. I was a Cat 1 cyclist and won a lot of races. And my son became a competitive cyclist and raced at a very high level, raced in Europe and was one of the early riders on the team. He's left the team and he's in college, but I've stayed involved in the program.

Speaker 1:

All right, mr McKinney.

Speaker 3:

Hey, yeah, I'm Mr McKinney. For my day job I am a middle school science teacher, but I am all in on cycling and have been since I was 13 years old and way back then the mentors that helped me kind of navigate this very outside of the norm sport in the United States were just people that changed my life. My life and this program kind of came out of that wanting to give back and be a mentor and help guide junior cyclists through what can sometimes be just an absolutely, you know, confusing and disorienting experience, even though they have a passion for the sport. So give them kind of a north star if, if, you will.

Speaker 4:

So yeah, we have an attorney we've got a school teacher and now we got Mr Mock. Yeah, so, justin Mock. I grew up in the DC area racing. I think my first race I was 11. Uh, first USAC race.

Speaker 4:

Um, fell in love with it, raced more and more until, uh, you know, graduating juniors racing some domestically and internationally had a great time, decided to move on past the sport and Ryan called me one day and was like, hey, we're getting this team rolling and I kind of want to take it to the next level and bring some more help in. And I thought that would be a really cool opportunity to share my experiences, kind of help, like Ryan said, be a North Star, share what I did wrong and try and guide these kids to not make mistakes that you know I may have made, and not just cycling guidance, but try and shape these kids into really good people. And I'd like to really um highlight that in in what we do on DC. Devo is, you know, shaping kids into being quality adults. Um, and I really like to see that these graduating classes we have. Not everyone goes on continuing cycling, go off to college, whatever, move on in life to something new and just seeing the good people were growing out of the sport is really cool yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I got to echo that. I mean, I think, like when I'm at the races and observing other teams bigger teams, smaller teams it's like the quality of our kids, like the quality of the people of our kids, it's like super high, like I actually enjoy hanging out with who they are, cause they're funny, they're smart, they can break down a race, they care about stuff, as opposed to just some jokesters out there that can still be in the junior world. So I think we're, you guys, have done a fantastic job of not only, uh, creating success on the team but also just create an environment to grow good people and I think that that, you know, that's a huge part of a developmental program, because you want, you want people that are, you know, helping them become better people. You want directors that are helping them become uh, so that whatever we learn in sport, we can bridge over to the rest of them.

Speaker 1:

As we are kind of poking around here, we'll get into the questions and since I had Chris queued up for that first big picture of sorts, I'll come back to mock for this first question and this, this, all three of these questions, by the way, for our audience members are coming from you, so you have written in, you've asked about, um, junior development, junior coaching and how does it work. So this first one is uh, I'll just read the original question and I'll have mock uh start to answer it and I will chime in here too, cause there's some coaching stuff on it. So uh, first question is can you talk about the specifics of coaching young athletes? We know younger athletes need more variety for proper athletic development and it should be fun and social. When all of that is done right, there must be a physiological driven part of coaching structure for proper development into a better racer. It would be interesting to hear from you about this topic.

Speaker 1:

Cheers Tonko so Mach. When I kind of read that question about coaching young athletes need for variety and some of the physiological aspects that drive that development, where do you want to start on answering that?

Speaker 4:

The importance, like in the question, is the variety In coaching a young athlete. The motivation has to be coming from themselves. It can't be from their parents, it can't be from their coach, it can't be from their team. The motivation, if it's coming from those sources, this rider's either quitting cycling while they're still a junior or, as soon as they're done as a junior, is quitting cycling.

Speaker 4:

The sport is far too hard, uh, far too many days where you're like, you know, off the back, you've flatted out of a race, you've crashed out of a race, pouring rain, you know weather's awful, you're heading out training, you're just going to quit. So, uh, motivation has to come within, um. But as another part of that question is like the healthy movement outside of just, you know, going and pedaling your bike for zone two, consistency, like go do long training hours, um, but the core work, making sure you're stretching and doing those things as well as not just being only a road rider, I think it's good A lot of our riders do cyclocross in the winter and what that does for your body and running toughens your bones and just makes you stronger across the board. It's not just about pedaling, um yeah, fully agree with that.

Speaker 1:

And I think, to touch on some of those points, I think depends on how young they actually are, because, uh, chris, remind me, uh, what are the ages that we start taking on athletes on DC Devo 15. So some of the riders, the I think the youngest was Ethan. I think I started talking to him when I was like 12, right. What I told his dad was listen, I'll talk to him once in a while, but I'm not even going to write a training program because I want him playing basketball, I want him riding his bike, his mountain bike, all the bikes, right, and volume's going to kept low and just do other stuff.

Speaker 1:

And that was the approach for the first, probably year and a half, and then we stepped up the volume a little bit and started to ride the bike more, get into races, focus on fun for the races and then keep on doing other stuff playing basketball, playing soccer, doing that kind of thing. And so Lydia as well, lydia Cusack. She was a soccer player before she started to do bikes more full time and I was encouraging her, along with her parents, to just keep on doing soccer as long as it was fun, just keep on going with it, just keep on playing different sports of movement patterns for kids and motor skill development of all the things is really important down the road. Um, because whether they are, you know, go on and race, cycle, cross or just road or mountain bike, but reaction times and bone structure and full range of motion, this is what we want. So I think the in terms of that structure, I don't.

Speaker 1:

What I can say is like keep them moving, keep them doing things when they're young, up to maybe like 16, then 17, where they can start to specialize a little bit more. But this is what I was saying in the in the um introduction is for 14, 15, 16 year olds. They kind of follow what I see as a time crunched, cyclist sort of pattern. They're doing volumes that are maybe six to 10 hours a week, oftentimes right, and and they're not going super epic, they're not going super long up until their bodies can tolerate it, and in that way you know, then, what we're working on is the process, the fun like bouncing, making training sessions that are more skill-based, more fun-based. Students, you know, circle at death and some of these other, like skills on the bike versus just chasing volume.

Speaker 2:

Observing junior cycling and the development of junior cycling and from all the teams that we've been involved in, and then seeing what they're doing in Europe. There is, I think that's true. I think what there's, a balance, though, because when they, if you're looking to get to the level where you can race successfully at 17, 18, where you're trying to make national team at 17, 18, really this is going to depend on the type of rider and what their ambitions are. I mean, there's some juniors who just want to have a good time in the sport, and that's totally great. To get to the level where they're going to race on like the national team, or they're going to be a contender at nationals, the volume that I've seen for a lot of riders increases significantly, um, after like around 15 years old, and then and then it's a challenge like the the best riders are the riders that we have to hold back. I'm sure, like that's your experience as a coach like ones who are, like you know, looking at the, the volume or some of the rides that these young girls like Alyssa and Lydia would do, they would just go out and do monster rides I don't know what their total volume is and they would do. Early on they were doing gravel races that were long and hard, with, like men at high speeds. They were winning, you know, the monster cross gravel race, which is a three hour long race. Like that's the level that they were at when they were 15 years old. Like they won that race in the pro women when they were 15. Right, so riders can't think that they're going to be able to do all the sports and not ride and compete against somebody like that. It's not going to happen. So then it becomes. You know one way to avoid, like the, you know, just always riding doing.

Speaker 2:

One thing is what you're saying is they all did different things on the bike they're mountain biking, they're cyclocross, they're gravel racing, they're road racing and they're getting in a lot of the variety that way, when they are forced to make a decision to stop doing other sports. Like Alyssa was a top ski racer, so was Catherine Sarkisov, lydia was a great soccer player, cora is a great soccer player. Ultimately, they have to become bike racers. Catherine Sarkisov, lydia was a great soccer player, gore is a great soccer player. Ultimately, they have to become bike racers. Right, that's just the unfortunate fact that parents, I think, have to understand, because there are too many good juniors, like the top juniors now, that are going to, like the 17-year-old boys that these guys you're going to face off against, they're going to pro teams in Europe right, I'm talking about the top four or five. In the US it's not as deep here, but those are the ones who are going to be dictating the speed of the race. So, like the 17-year-olds are going to go into a race that's going to be run at a much faster pace than a pro one-two race with men or women.

Speaker 2:

You know there has to be that sense of realism from the parents and from the riders about what they're kind of getting themselves into. And then it's a tricky balance that coaches like yourself and others have to manage. Like you have to do enough but you don't want to burn out somebody young, and we've seen that happen with lots of riders, sometimes of their own motivation. They're just out there just grinding away all the time because they're self-motivated, but ultimately it's just too much and they need to be held back. So it's a hard sport that requires a lot of training and it's not like other sports where you can really afford to do a bunch of different things, like different ball sports, like you have people who are good at football, good at this or good at that.

Speaker 2:

If you're going to be a cyclist, you're going to be a cyclist. I think that's my view. Maybe maybe some of you would disagree. And it's like I guess it's the question of what age you start doing that Cause obviously there's. There's some top riders we've heard about, like Remco and others, who they have the ability and they jump into the sport when they're 17 and come in from other sports and dominate. But that's so far outside the norm that if you do that norm, you know the usual course and you show up at a 17, 18 race, you're just going to get blown out, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think too, you hit the nail on the head. It depends on that age, and what's tricky about juniors is their growth rate and their rate of development is all over the place. When we're talking kind of that 13 to 16, a lot happens there. And so, like ballpark here, like 13 to 14-year-olds generally, maybe 200, 250 hours a year and that's like maybe six hours of training. But you go up to 15, 16, and all of a sudden we're like 300, 400 hours of training, right. And then all of a sudden that's like the determiner or decision point of okay, are we going to take this to the next level and grow bigger.

Speaker 1:

And then what I would do is I'd take that, that individual athlete and try to grow the total annual hours by 10 to 15% each year. So then you move up to like that 600, you know, maybe 600 hours for a 17 year old and going up to potentially 800 hours for an 18 year old. If they've chosen that path and if they've have been racing and doing something on a bike for since age 10, which some of these riders that we're talking about have in 800 hours, it's a lot of fricking training. So we're all over the place with, like this, general ballpark of uh you know, competing to get the participation trophy, to getting serious to elite. But I think what's so interesting, fascinating and rewarding about this age group is stuff happens so quickly and their dose response to training is very different than us middle-aged folk who are all talking on this podcast right now.

Speaker 2:

Because those changes happen so quickly. You can't make anything of either your success or failure at a young age, like when you're 13 or 14, versus even when you're 15. You see all the time, these riders who are winning races when they're 13 or 14. It's just because they're developmentally so much more advanced than you know, their their peers. They've just grown faster, uh, but then other riders catch up and everything flips around and that does. It's not sustainable. So people need to be patient and they need to focus on the training and just really like into race and ride at that age and not be put under any pressure by parents or anything else for like results, even up to 15, because then that's going to all flip around Right. And sometimes these younger riders who are smaller riders, who are like just trying to like, hang in there with these bigger guys. They end up being strong because they build the resilience you know and if they're not quitting and they're doing that, then those are people could go on to become really good riders.

Speaker 1:

Completely agree. And so to Tonko, thank you for writing that in Cause. I mean, it's a, it's a very big question. I think we touched on a few things, uh, you know, directly related to that. I take that individual approach. I kind of see like what, what other sports have they been doing, how long they've been riding, and then kind of grow them from there and be conservative but also focus on the process, focus, focus on the gamification of learning how to actually race. That's another huge component of it, of which we'll get into that, maybe a little bit more in question too. So I'm going to, I'm going to kick it over to McKinney for this one, because we got to. We're the time crunch, cyclist, ryan, we got to keep going here.

Speaker 3:

That's right, keep it going.

Speaker 1:

That's right, so here's. Here's the second question. This one's coming from Kim and she says my kids are 12 and 14, just getting into cycling and curious about racing. I know you coach junior athletes. How do we find a good junior program? What should we look for in a program and when should they start racing? Anything else I should think about? Sorry, I'm new to this whole thing. Thanks, uh, thanks, and any advice is appreciated, kim. All right, ryan.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, ryan, yeah, yeah, kim. Uh, first of all, it's a blessing if your children are at all interested in cycling anyway. So, yeah, knowing where to take that interest and that curiosity is so important and it really, in my experience, it depends on a lot of different things. Um, you know what is doable for you and your family, like how far are you willing to go to make this interest in cycling possible for your, for your children? So the first thing to do is see if there's any information at your local bike shop is a great place to start. The next place to look would be any junior programs like NICA is a great school-based program for mountain biking. The next thing to do is look at local cycling clubs, depending on where you are in the country. As far as what you should look for in a program, the first one is one that is fun and interesting and inviting and one that you know wants to help your child or children learn how to be safe on a bike, how to, you know, ride within a group in a safe way and build camaraderie and community while doing those things. And then, once that kind of foundation is established, then you can start thinking like, okay, my child knows how to ride safely on their bike, they know how to ride in a group, and then you can say like, okay, racing that's a thing, and I don't want to say like that's the only route, because there are different types of racing. What I was just talking about was mostly road racing, but a great way if your child is just interested in what a race might feel like is trying out mountain biking or cyclocross racing, and here in our community in the mid-Atlantic we have just this amazing cyclocross community that embraces the junior programs in this area. It's just the big funnel into cycling in this area.

Speaker 3:

Cyclocross racing is mostly done in parks, so it's a fully closed course, so it's super safe for the racers. But it also demands a lot of the riders. It teaches them incredible bike handling skills. It teaches them when to put a lot of power into their pedaling and when to be in a state of finesse where they're having to kind of move their way through technical obstacles. They're going to have to get off their bike and run. So it's a great avenue into cycling.

Speaker 3:

Super fun experience, um, into cycling super fun, um experience. And then, as far as anything else to think about, uh, if I was a parent who had children interested in cycling, I would caution you, um, to just understand that the sport is uh, as Chris and Adam and Justin have said, it is a, it's a. It's a really tough sport and that motivation piece that was referred to earlier, um, is really important. This is not a sport that parents can say, you know you're going to be a cyclist, and here you go, like, go get after it. Um, because it's a grueling, brutal sport, uh, and if the motivation is coming from anywhere other than the child, it's not going to be sustainable. All that said, it is a wonderful, awesome community where people you know push each other to limits they didn't know they could reach, and you know that's the really great side of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's well. That is an all encompassing answer. One thing I'll add to that is in my intro I said, you know, this thing takes a village, like you know, developing an athlete from you know, super young up until, if they go, elite and all that kind of stuff. And in that village, you know it's, it's the parents, first and foremost, because I mean they're getting them to the races, and foremost cause I mean they're getting them to the races and and I mean they're taking huge polls, but then it's directors and coaches and guidance counselors like you that are doing a huge efforts at the races themselves.

Speaker 1:

So I think, yeah to the Ryan's point, kim. It's like look for a dynamic, communicative, open-minded group like these three here, and one of the ways is just like get to the races, get some of those exposures, um, and organically, that's a really great, great way to do it. Uh, to you, chris, because you are kind of like whenever I have a question I reach out to you and you always have an answer, um, but is there like a club finder sort of website on like usacling or anything from a website that somebody could just Google, I believe?

Speaker 2:

USA Cycling's website has a list of what they call the Centers for Excellence. We're one of those, but there are lots of junior programs around the country that have that label and there's so many great junior programs and most of them focus on cyclocross and they're also mountain bike programs and I fully agree that that's where to start as a junior Cyclocross. It's so much fun. The kids like it. They train together in a park a couple days a week. It's just super great and it's a type of event where you can race it really hard, but you can also just go out there and just give it your best shot. Everybody has a good time. Different kids are after different things. Some are just really trying to go out there and just hammer everybody. Others are trying to go out there and the courses are super fun. Obstacle courses and mountain biking is the same way. So it's it's competitive, but it's it's not competitive Like in road racing. Road racing you're either in the race or you're kind of out the back, and it's kind of either or and it can be demoralizing. And it's also the other events, as Ryan was saying, they're technical but they're at much slower speeds, so they're much safer. You don't have the issues that you do on the road.

Speaker 2:

But there are many, many clubs In the DC area. I mean our club wouldn't exist without Rock Creek Velo or now BYC we're getting riders from and we've all benefited from that and it's a huge, awesome program. They take the kids out on the road. It's been a project of some really awesome parents that have stuck with it over the years and have cycled through there. My son went through that.

Speaker 2:

All of our top riders Sarkisovs, cusacks, everybody came out of Rock Creek Velo. You know the same with Boulder Junior Cycling out in Boulder and there's some other programs like that up in the Midwest. There's some really big programs. So you can find these by going to the USA Cycling website or also just Googling Junior Cycling Clubs and there's going to be a great program in your area if you're in a fairly populated area. And then the NICA mountain biking series for middle schools and high schools. That's the biggest, most successful junior development program right now in the United States. They have huge turnout and those races are again. They're super fun. Kids are out there having a great time just hanging out with their friends and you also have some super high-level racing going on and kids who go from that to like national level competition. You know riders like Kate Courtney other top riders have come out of this programs so that that's like a real bright spot in US cycling.

Speaker 1:

No, that's great and, kim, super good question. Tons of resources out there, google it, go to USA Cycling and, heck, if you can't find anything, reach out to me, and I will likely just reach out to Chris Hardy and, uh, find something that fits for you as well. So, moving on to the third question, which is it's a. This is also a very good question and hits on, uh, like a really unique aspect of our sport, and I want, I want everybody to chime in on this one and I'll I'll start with you mock, um, but cause racing as a junior and kind of like caddying up as you go. I think this, this pertains. So here's here's the original question.

Speaker 1:

Uh, my kids are racing as juniors and the team they're on encourages riding and racing with grown adults. Is this normal? Shouldn't kids just race kids? I know you've mentioned working with juniors in the past, so please shed some light on this. Or maybe I just need to relax. If this is how it's done, my kids are 15 and 16. Thanks, robert. So a block Is that a normal aspect of the sport and why is it?

Speaker 4:

You're not going to be able to have juniors ride together every day of the week. Our juniors are kind of spread out across the area. It's not football practice, it's not, you know, five nights a week, uh, football practice with all your teammates. It's not that. You know. I lived out in Northern Virginia. There's no way I'd be getting into DC to do these RCV group rides. So the local group ride I was doing was the rest and bike club. I was the only junior, so totally normal.

Speaker 1:

How did you identify that that group ride was appropriate for you? Like speed wise, group wise, safety wise. Like, how was that done?

Speaker 4:

It's probably my coach telling me to go do the group ride. My coach knew about the ride. Um, I was on NCVC as a junior. We had the NCVC adult team too. So you kind of mix and mingle with those riders and find mentors.

Speaker 2:

There's lots of different types of group rides. Some are less safe than others, some are more mellow, so you can inquire in the community about which ones to start out with. If you have a junior, it's very important because, as Justin was saying, the juniors. There are not enough juniors for juniors to ride together, and also there are not enough juniors for juniors to race together, except for at the big national events. So to learn to race a bike, you're going to have to race with men. That's just the fact.

Speaker 2:

And those races unfortunately, like at the beginner levels, are not entirely safe. That's an aspect of the sport that parents and riders have to figure out what they want to do, and that's going to go back to what we were talking about earlier, which is what is the objective of the rider. And if you don't want to do that, stick with cyclocross and mountain biking. And then, if you get strong enough and you're older, then you want to jump into that If they really want to be successful on the road. All of our riders were racing and doing well in men's racing when they were like 15 years old, like our girls were winning you know all the women's races when they're at that age.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was just going to say it's common for girls to jump in the threes with the men.

Speaker 2:

Our girls, when they were 16, were racing in men's three races. Right, that's how crazy talented they are and we had encouraged that. We talked to them. I remember talking to their parents like this is what they got to do because the women's field is too small and it's not competitive enough for them. They need to build the speed, because what they were looking to build to is racing in Europe, where you're going to be racing in the fields of very fast girls but where you have 90 in the field and if you're racing in a field of like 15 or 20, and you're by far the strongest rider, you might as well be out riding by yourself. And that's kind of what's their experience.

Speaker 2:

Often when racing in the women's fields, they need to ride in a race that's got a lot of dynamics, a lot of attacking, recovery, managing your bike, and now they're great bike handlers. They can manage a field. If riders want to develop now, they have to be aiming to get up into the men's races. You know when we were like trying to get our 15, 16s get to be a Cat 3, race in the men's Cat 3 races. Start doing well in those podium in the men's Cat 3. By the time you're 17, cat two, you know, and on up right and then, because that's the level of riders that they're racing against, if they really want to do well at nationals, if they want to try to get on like the national team, because those guys are all like cat ones by the time they're 18 I think.

Speaker 3:

For from robert's point of view, you know, here in the united states it is unusual for for children in sports to be competing against adults. So, robert, I hear you, but cycling is such a unique kind of group, and also the physics of the sport make it so that we can compete against each other at different age groups. So it seems strange, but it does make a lot of sense.

Speaker 2:

It's a function of the numbers or the lack of numbers for the juniors in the United States. In Europe and Belgium it's not permitted for juniors to race with adults, right, they have 15, 16 categories and they race together. They don't race up even with the 17, 18s, 17s, 18s race together and they can't race up even with the 17, 18s, 17s, 18s race together and they can't race you, 23 or elites. But they have 80 to 90 kids in each of those categories and those races and those races are super competitive. Here there's just not enough juniors, unless you go to the big race, like the three or four or five in the country nationals, Valley of the Sun, their Lago Vista in Texas and others where you're going to get a field sizes where you can actually learn the sport. So it's just a function of bike racing in the United States compared to Europe. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that was that was the main point I was I was hoping we'd hammer out is is exactly that, chris. But I think, to McKinney's point, the way we do it or the way our culture does it in the United States is drastically different than Europe. But there's also some beauty behind that too, because I think the sport of cycling itself has this like accessibility to it. I think that there's a there's a lot of beauty behind that too, and so I think you, you lean into that. But, yeah, robert, um, it's weird, but it's also really cool because we're open to having these age categories like get those experiences so they can increase, you know, up in category and get more high level competitions and stuff. But, Ryan, lastly, do you, I mean, is that the way it was when you were a junior, climbing the ranks as well?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, that's all. In fact, there was very little support in the mid-Atlantic area for junior cyclists when I was young, and I'm sure Chris probably feels the same way, but that's all I did. The only junior races I did was when there was, you know, the big national events, and that was it.

Speaker 1:

Other than that, that there was a junior category here, um, but it had maybe six or seven riders, so it wasn't even worth to, I mean really participating in and so I think, like you know, with, with all that being said, I mean it's, it's um, you know, with what we're doing, like on the dc devo race academy, I mean it is, in my opinion, very special and but I'm I'm close to the sport, I'm in it. You know, juniors are both like frustrating and rewarding all at the same time to coach and I absolutely love it. So here's the shameless plug If people are like you know what I really love bikes and I want to support like, if they want to support DC Devo as like an individual club, chris, how would they do that? And also, like big picture here, what else could listeners do to ensure that the future of the sport is successful and has these opportunities long term, to keep on racing up, take it to the next level if that's what they want to do, or just be in love with bikes for longevity?

Speaker 2:

I think the main thing they can do to make the sport successful would if they have kids that are interested in the sport or if they want to introduce their kids to it, just to find some of these really great grassroots programs and help keep those programs going and support those programs. I think those are extremely important. Contribute to NICA and then for programs like ours we exist to provide a platform for that next level of talented riders who want to race nationally and internationally. We depend on those programs. I mean, we do our fundraising through, largely supported by the DC Velo generous members on the team who are have been super supportive of the program over the years, and we do some fundraising on on Facebook and Instagram.

Speaker 4:

One thing I'd add to that, uh, chris, is if, if you're someone who has experience that happens to be listening to this, you know, came up through the ranks, is it's not just money, it's time this team, like if it wasn't for the three of us, uh, and Adam too, subbing in the time is a really hard thing. We're, all you know, busy people with things in our life, um, but I do think that the juniors find it valuable for us to be there and be supporting and like giving our knowledge. So valuable for us to be there and be supporting and like giving our knowledge. So, uh, you know, and it feels really good when I am able to make the time to go be at the races. Uh, so, time, if you're, if you're someone that thinks could help find a local program and ask like, hey, do you guys need, you know, an extra hand.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and I think this is one quick story of just like our national championships um, a few weeks ago. Here in this, to pull the veil back on how some of this works is like we had a meeting on zoom before that. Mckinney was leading right, all the riders jumped on, we jumped on. We had a game plan for the race itself. Hardy got there for the time trial because the rest of us weren't there yet. We couldn't make it because we were doing our other jobs.

Speaker 1:

And Hardy basically high fives mock, who comes in and takes the rain for like the, the crit, and I met him for the crits and then the road race. Mock goes to a wedding after the crits and he comes back like in time, and then I had to take the boys, cause that was like the early race. I high five him. He takes the girls for the road race that day and like we just make it work. And so there's no like super magic recipe we're not a high budget team but like we make it work and you keep it chill for the riders so that they can focus on their performance, and that that passion in that time is probably more valuable than the money itself, even though you need the money to fund the thing. So mock, I mean kudos for saying that if you have that expertise and you have time available, it goes a long way, because kids will remember that forever.

Speaker 3:

It really is about cultivating a fun, supportive environment for young people who have an interest and a drive to do something that is physically, mentally, emotionally challenging and helping them reach new heights. And then, when that support leads to successes, it really is just a feeling that you can't get from any other effort, and so just a really, really fantastic experience to grow with these young people and their families into, you know, a sport that we all love, and that's what this is all about.

Speaker 1:

All right, last last little bit and then we'll wrap up. If someone hears this and they're in the mid Atlantic region, chris, how does it work? If they want to get their kid involved in their uh, 15 years old, what do they do?

Speaker 2:

I mean, they could reach out to us on our, you know, dm us on our Instagram page at DC, uh, devo racing Academy. And uh, yeah, that's probably the best way and we respond.

Speaker 1:

We've. I just had an inquiry from someone today who is interested. Yeah, and I'll add in I mean we've got a rider from Montana right, so it doesn't even have to be our region itself, because we do get to bigger national races and then partner with USA Cycling to get to international stuff. Well, gentlemen, I thank you so much for your time. We will get this out to the masses and I do think our audience members at least the ones who wrote in, but those who are hanging on and still listening to us go along. Hopefully you learn something. If a junior shows up to your race or your group ride, it's not that abnormal, especially here in the United States. So lean in, help the kid If you've got some of that expertise, and let them go and grow into that next future generation. To let them go and grow into that next future generation. So to you guys, thank you for everything, including all your efforts on this program. It is absolutely fun to be just a little spoke in this wheel, so thanks for putting this on.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on the time crunch cyclist podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you want even more actual training advice, head over to train rightcom backslash newsletter and subscribe to our free weekly publication. Each week you'll get in-depth training content that goes beyond what we cover here on the podcast. That'll help you take your training to the next level. That's all for now. Until next time, train hard, train smart, train right.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Adam Pulford

Host