The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast by CTS
Coach Adam Pulford delivers actionable training advice and answers your questions in short weekly episodes for time-crunched cyclists looking to improve their cycling performance. The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast (formerly The TrainRight Podcast) is brought to you by the team at CTS - the leading endurance coaching company since 2000. Coach Adam pulls from over a decade of coaching experience and the collective knowledge of over 50+ CTS Coaches to help you cut throught the noise of training information and implement proven training strategies that’ll take your performance to the next level.
The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast by CTS
Trust Before Training: The Value of Human Coaching in an AI Era (#248)
OVERVIEW
Colin Izzard and Adam Pulford have more than 45 years of coaching experience between them. In this casual conversation between two old friends and colleagues, they pull back the curtain on how the coaching process works, how it differs from a training plan or AI-generated program, and how coaching has changed for the better with the introduction of new technologies - including artificial intelligence.
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GUEST
Colin Izzard graduated from Syracuse University in 1998 with a BS in Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics. He served as the Head Coach for USA Swimming Teams as well as working at UNC Chapel Hill as a swimming and strength coach. He joined CTS as a coach in the early 2000s, developed CTS’s first regional center in Asheville/Brevard NC, and mentored, developed, and trained dozens of coaches. Other fun projects have included writing stage races for Zwift and working with Training Peaks to help develop WKO 4 software. He served as a bike fit/sports science advisor for the Hincapie Racing Team, Columbia Es Passion Professional Cycling Team, The Toronto Maple Leafs NHL Team, and Trek Regional Factory Programs.
HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.
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From the team at CTS. This is the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast, our show dedicated to answering your training questions and providing actionable advice to help you improve your performance even if you're strapped for time. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford, and I'm one of the over 50 professional coaches who make up the team at CTS. In each episode, I draw on our team's collective knowledge, other coaches and experts in the field to provide you with the practical ways to get the most out of your training and ultimately become the best cyclist that you can be. Now on to our show.
Speaker 1:What is coaching? That's a super basic question, but it's a good one, and for some who have been athletes their whole life, they've had many coaches and probably a mix of good and not so good coaches. And in the endurance world, though, in what we're going to talk about today, we're going to really kind of press into. What does a coaching process look like for an amateur athlete working with a remote-based coach? Now I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford, here to answer some of those questions and pull back the veil on what coaching is. Is CTS Premier Coach Colin Izzard. Colin, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me again. Yeah, man, and you know special little tidbit here for all the listeners Colin is actually in my house right now.
Speaker 2:It's a little weird being on the other side of the wall.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is true, you are about as the crow flies, maybe five feet. Uh, yes, this is true, uh, you are. You are about, uh, as the crow flies, maybe five feet away from me, but there is a wall in between us. Yeah, and the way that this low budget podcast works is we got to be in separate rooms to talk to each other. But that's fine and dandy, Colin. Uh, since everyone knows now where you are, uh, can you tell us a little bit more of what we did today?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we we actually and this kind of is nice for the the purpose of what we're chatting about we had a great mountain bike ride, uh, and some awesome trails right out of adam's front door. Um, just just ripped about, um, and the the cool thing to me was getting to see a different area that I've never been to with an experienced person. That's those, the trails. So not dissimilar to probably some of the stuff we'll get into here. That's it.
Speaker 1:And even before you know, just want to let everybody know that not every day do I rip the mountain bike for three hours and then have a podcast with a friend. This is a pretty unique Friday and I'm just stoked Colin's passing through and we can make this happen. But before that I mean in the morning we woke up, started drinking some coffee. One of my athletes was racing at Brabant's to peel and so we watched bike racing, then we built programs, then we were doing the keyboard donkey work, like Colin likes to say emails, text message back and forth and then pretty soon we were like we should probably get out and ride the bike, right.
Speaker 2:Yep, probably yeah, so we had time to do this too, as the day was getting on. Yes, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:So, but with that and some chatter about what this podcast is going to be like, cause I've had athletes, or I've had people that I ride with and also people who have never had a coach before ask me, like what is coaching? Like what do you do? Or my parents, like I'm pretty sure my mom still doesn't really know what I do. It's a very weird occupation. So, colin, if I can just ask you the pure question, like what is coaching?
Speaker 2:So my, my way I look at this is it's, it's, it's guidance, mentorship, friendship, not necessarily in that order, uh and, and it changes order depending on where the athletes at in their athletic journey, right, and it can change weekly, daily, yearly, whatever the case is. But, but that that's the biggest part to me. Or the other stuff is, you know, the science and the building of the schedule and all that that. I mean, it's an important part of it, to be sure, but I've always found that that coaching really is. It's a relationship and, like any other relationship, it can be really fruitful if you put some work into it and and do all the things that you would do in any other. You know, human interaction, relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's you know. A huge part of what I want to talk about today is that relationship, because I'll preface this with a disclaimer saying that this is not a podcast intended to be an advertisement for CTS in particular, or even to get a coach. It is simply to, like I said, pull the veil back on what coaching actually is, and how does it compare to static training program versus AI program versus self-coaching and that sort of thing? And so, to me, when I think about, like, what coaching is and what we do, it has all of those elements that Colin is talking about, and the coaching itself is a process by which one person is helping another person achieve their goals or try to improve some aspect about themselves, and in our world, it's probably some aspect of their physiology, their psychology, their body composition and their maybe their race or or event savviness. Those are the things that we really develop in our athletes. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. And then again, sort of like what I was saying before, it depends on where they are right, because you're going to do those things differently into different percentages as you go on with a person right yeah, someone that you've had for seasons. It's automatic writing training, but you know what they need to do and they know what they need to do. So then you are looking at okay, well, let's, let's talk about race craft. You've got an amazing engine. We know that, we've done the development, but it's utilized poorly. How do we actually use it? Well, to your advantage that's a huge.
Speaker 1:Well, that that is a huge one. And I think it brings me to one of my first points is I think a lot of people think coaching, or what a coach does, is just build a bunch of intervals for the week, and then the athlete goes and does it, and then you talk about it and there's basically like an interval building machine. Is that what you do, colin, are you?
Speaker 2:an interval building machine. There is an element to that, yes. However, I would say that is truthfully. That is the easiest part of the job and quite often takes the least amount of time.
Speaker 1:I know probably some people don't want to hear that, but really that's pulling back the nail, like a lot of people think that building the intervals is actually. But it's not Sorry to interrupt, but that's the Sorry to interrupt you, but that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Right. I mean, we've both been doing this a while and anyone that's been doing it a while and that's even halfway competent, that should be one of the easiest parts of the job, without a doubt. Right, identifying maybe what to do when. That should be easy but also takes a little more thought. But yeah, you know, there's nothing magical about like four by 10 versus four by 12 per se, other than progression Right and and in that way I mean following the principles of training, which progression is one of them.
Speaker 1:Progressive overload, in particular, is is important. But I think, too, this rolls back to a couple of podcasts I did ago now where, uh, basically you know asking the question, do we actually need to do intervals? And I gave a bunch of examples of when and how and why you wouldn't be doing intervals, including monitoring exercise through kilojoule expenditure, training fatigue resistance or building durability, or just riding around, enjoying riding your bike and exercising and staying fit without having the structure all of the time, which is super important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, or I mean.
Speaker 2:So.
Speaker 2:I've been doing this for a while, but recently we've started implementing it with a couple of folks where it's like, okay, we, we know, we want X amount of minutes of of whatever intensity, that we're working on energy system, and you know, they just, instead of doing four by 12 or whatever the case is, they're an experienced enough athlete that we can have a good conversation about it and say, okay, well, look, I want whatever 60 minutes of this work today and you've got a box to play in.
Speaker 2:You know from X to Y, which were power, you know um, rp or whatever that that represents that area that we want to be in. And now you go ride the bike and let the terrain dictate it and and ride inside the box. I want you to override it and preferably don't underwrite it too much. But that's, to me, is a great thing that you know you can have that conversation with someone and they've matured enough as an athlete to understand what you're getting at and understand the purpose, the greater purpose behind the workout. And yes, it is an interval, quote, quote, but it's not.
Speaker 1:And then mentally, for that person too, it's can be more fruitful and you're still getting at the root thing of whatever part of their physiology you're trying to improve for whatever, purpose, yeah, yeah, and so in that regard, I mean you're putting some bumpers on to kind of steer them in the direction, but it's a little bit more of an abstract workout or goals that are more abstract within the bike riding realms of sorts. They stay ahead of the athlete in the way of, you know, guiding them, leading them in that way, but it's not that like super programmed, strict, you know kind of dictatorship sort of role, which some coaches do. That's fine and some athletes prefer that. That's not my coaching style, but I do think that there is. That coach-athlete relationship is much more healthy when we have some abstract times, we have some strict times, kind of there's time for both, absolutely yeah, hey, we got to rein this in.
Speaker 2:We're going to be ultra precise, or no? We've got this big block of time. Let's understand what it's about and figure out different ways to get through it that are fruitful for you so we've talked about relationship right, and coach-athlete relationship.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I think distinguishes CTS from others, or what good coaching companies do, is they pay attention to that relational side of things and try to pair coaches with athletes that have not only similar goal, uh, like goal interest meaning. Like you know, colin, if you raced the blood to 100 and or mountain bikes, right, your mountain bike racer background, right, um, and you have a swimming background, which we'll talk about here in a second Um, if there's overlap there, whatever that Venn diagram is, we're going to pair that athlete, at least to have a conversation with you to see if it's a good fit. Then there's another layer of like, communication, relatability and like do you jive? Like, can you talk more about that? Like, have you ever rejected an athlete because you didn't jive?
Speaker 2:absolutely yeah, and I've been rejected too, and and it goes both because it goes back to, I think what I mentioned earlier and you know we this is what I like is when you actually, as as a coach, you've reached that point in your career where you and I do this right, like we might say hey, you know, athlete X, you're awesome, but I think I might be better for you, here's why Right.
Speaker 2:And then you have that conversation and again, it doesn't really it matters what that coach's training philosophy is, for sure, but it matters much more to me that that initial conversation or two are good, they're smooth, you can actually have a conversation with this person, right. And yeah, sometimes it's a little awkward to start, like any initial conversation, but I think the best athlete relationships I've had over the years, it's almost it's like when you find a new friend right and it's just this automatic, you click. Yes, you're talking about the training. It's almost it's like when you find a new friend right and it's just this automatic you click yes, you're talking about the training, but then you start to inject in like, oh, I have a dog, cool, so do I.
Speaker 2:Cool, you know, it's just like those things that then deepen the relationship, that then builds trust between you two and so that when things are going well, you can communicate and we're probably more importantly when they aren't going well, that athlete feels comfortable coming to you and be like okay, look, this is where I'm at and this is what's going on, and and it's not a hard it could be a hard conversation, but it's not hard to start the conversation Well and to that point, I think, when you have, when you have trust, when you have buy-in from somebody and you've been working with somebody, that's like you can have the hard conversations and it's not going to go south.
Speaker 1:And that's really what a relationship, or a healthy relationship, should have those aspects to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Again, it's like any other, any other relationship, right? Personal work, whatever. It has to flow that way Cause, yeah, if it all, if all I'm doing is building workouts and giving you a high five, I mean, I get some people like that, but to me I don't think that you're maximizing what you could be doing as an athlete. Um, and then for me, professionally, honestly, it's not the most, uh, fulfilling coaching relationship either, right Cause, yeah, you're just an interval donkey.
Speaker 1:So you know I mentioned that I don't want this to be an advertisement for CTS or, you know, even for coaching. But if somebody you know has been listening to this podcast and other podcasts like fast talk and all this kind of stuff and they're, you know, getting revved up for, you know, a great season, or maybe it's next year like who, who should have a coach and who shouldn't have a coach in your opinion?
Speaker 2:I think, people, that goes back to relationships. If you are willing to not be a hundred percent told what to do, but if you're willing to listen and learn and maybe try something new, maybe say, hey, this has worked in the past and and again meld those things in, then yeah, coaching's for you, right. If you are going to hire a coach, whoever it is, or or even like go into the AI end of things, if you're going to go down that rabbit hole and you're not willing to take the guidance right, you're always second guessing it, like, oh, then it's kind of a waste of your money and your time, honestly. Um, but yeah, I mean, if you're open-minded, you want to improve, you want a partnership and whoever it is, that's a good route to go, without a doubt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that openness, the, the, the willingness to communicate, with it being a two-way street, if you're willing to engage with that and and help, like you know, cause there there's a, there's a lot of like clerical work that a coach has to do, meaning like, get your travel schedule figure out. When you're I mean, for work when you're traveling for work, what can you do, what can't you do while you're away? Is somebody watching the kids so you can go to the group ride? Which days of the week Tuesday and Thursday, this sort of like bookkeeping kind of organizational work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then it's the physiological stuff, then it's annual planning and then it's like having the accountability of going back and forth. How do you feel, how did this go? And so if you're willing to have an open mind of receiving, uh, feedback, if you're willing to be accountable and have someone be accountable back to you, those are all good signs that you should have a coach. That like kind of qualifiers. If. If you're not, and if you're like and I hate to say this because time crunch, athlete, everybody's busy, but if you're so busy that you can't interact with your coach, you probably shouldn't have a coach Like if you can't get me your travel schedule if you're too busy to or and if you're, you know if you're too busy, it just changes all of the time.
Speaker 1:It's a red flag to me, however. I coach athletes like that and it's fine, but then there's a lot more like give and take or oscillation of how we're building a program, meaning like I'll build stuff out for three or four weeks and my goal is just get it done this week, like just get all this done. If you miss a day, that's fine.
Speaker 2:Well, I always clean it up next time, yeah, and I do the same thing. Right, I have people like that. But we have like a goal tile, or whatever you want to call it, on the beginning of the week and say like here, here's the workouts for the week. Preferably get them in this order. If not, try to get as many as you can. Um, we'll rebalance it at the beginning of next week, sort of thing.
Speaker 2:And, and those, I think those folks I mean, cause I see you know everyone's busy and everyone has moments where it doesn't go to plan. But to to your point, if, if you can, you know, if you are willing to communicate back to the coach, like, okay, well, obviously we see it if it doesn't go right. But okay, hey, I know this isn't going to go right next week because X, y and Z have just come up. Then again, yeah, I think it can be a fruitful thing. Right, I did a little bit of I forget what the program was, but there was some AI thing that we kind of monkeyed with.
Speaker 2:And you know, in monkeying with the various permutations, I mean it did pretty well, but it didn't in the sense that you know if you were honest with it and you gave it some info. It still was like, okay, well, you know, we assume you're okay and just charge forward with the whatever seven by twos. Um, so you know, can I say you can't really talk to the AI, I think, or I suppose you can, but how reactive it is or not, um, yeah, and I think not not there yet, I guess I suppose you can, but how reactive it is or not, yeah, not there yet, I guess I wouldn't say it's there yet.
Speaker 1:I think that there's some cool AI stuff and there's some cool AI stuff that I'm currently working with.
Speaker 1:There's some stuff I've seen that wasn't great, but I think in the way of building intervals, building and and analyzing things quickly, that's super cool.
Speaker 1:And I think, as coaches, ai is really going to enhance what we do and I think that if, if you've got, like a, either a physiological background or interest or an engineer background, and then you have time, um, to sink in in this and you love tinkering, that too, you can be a self-coached athlete and I don't think that you need a coach necessarily. I think a coach can help expedite some of that process and bring in some of the art, even though we steal or utilize some ideas and concepts from that engineering and computer modeling sort of background in our sport now for great results. However, you know, like I said, like the best way to expedite that, that information for you if you're training, racing and prepping for something, coach is a pretty good way to do that. However, I've seen a lot of people with that kind of background and it goes fine for them because they capture onto that and they listen to themselves and it's all good, you know.
Speaker 2:I think that's well. So that's the thing, right, if, if they can be honest with themselves and listen to how they're feeling and take that feedback whether it's automated or someone and then understand what to do with it. Right, that's the important thing versus the I'm exhausted, I can't get off the couch, but I'm still going to go do this. Right, that's, that's a problem. No-transcript yeah, punch through Cause we have or or yeah, yeah, suck it up Right, um, or as best you can, yeah, or at least try.
Speaker 1:But I think the trickiest part about like self-coached is your emotion and how to detach from that. And that's where I think a coach or an AI program sure we don't, we don't have that emotion, the okay, but the coach has empathy. So they know what you know a four by 12 feels like, they know what a seven by two feels like and in the associated intensities with that, they know what a you know day three and four of a huge block feels like. The ai may not, it may get there soon, right, but it but in the way of training has been going good, but I had and sleep was going good and then all of a sudden it was sleep because my kid woke up and then I had to go on kid duty and all that. Now what? Here again, the coach comes in to help you figure out a problem, which is another element or another hat that we wear with being a friend, being a mentor, being a problem solver and all this kind of stuff. Absolutely yeah, colin, would you say that you coach Everybody the same?
Speaker 2:No, I, I I'm, generally speaking, I I'm, I guess, maybe a moderate cheerleader coach. I'm not. You know, I'm not setting off fireworks all the time Like if, if you really did something awesome, yeah, but within that, yeah, I mean, you know, just understanding how people communicate and personalities and who you can push a little more to the point you made there a minute ago, and then who other at other points you're like to the empathy standpoint. Look, I know you could do this, but if I make you do this or make you do it this way, it's going to bite us today, tomorrow, at some point it's going to get us.
Speaker 2:I've got a um, a rider I started working with I guess our second season now, but that was one of the biggest things that we we worked on um when she started working with me and then, as we moved through the season, we really started to understand how to pull the levers the right way on the right day. Um, she's actually one of the people that's doing the 60 minutes of X and just doing it on trail right now, instead of four by 12 or whatever, where she at least has the option, cause I trust that she can make the best and make that judgment. But you know that understanding versus you know how she operates versus another rider where I can say, look, look, we're doing four by 15 because you're going to go off the rails if I, if you do it the other way. Um, so, yeah, they're all a little different. Yeah, I doubt personalities. Right, I mean that's for all individual.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cheesy is that's not cheesy, it's just reality, right, like people, they have different personalities. People have things that make them tick and talk in different ways, and I think a coach tunes into that. Um, and I remember, like as a young coach, I talk about Dean a lot on this podcast. He's he's a mentor of mine, um, yeah, but we always would say Dean's a chameleon, right Cause he would work with. He would work with so many different athlete groups, from NHL to motorsports to cycling, to the weekend warrior that's trying to finish Leadville and everything in between. But he could communicate and relate to those people and motivate them too in his weird Dean goofy ways.
Speaker 1:But you're similar to that, colin, because tell us a little bit of what you've been doing recently. But, for the record and for everybody listening here, colin's been with the company for 80,000 years and he used to run the Brevard Training Center for the CTS Brevard Training Center and he ran a whole team of coaches and he has a mountain bike racing background as well as a swimming background and downhill racing and all this kind of stuff. So tell us what you've been up to recently. Weave in some coaching to that. I've got a couple more questions for you before we end this thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so most recently we relocated back up to the northeast from Brevard and I started some coaching again, which, before CTS, I worked for some some USA swimming club teams, youth development teams, and I worked at Chapel Hill as a coach and things like that. So it's been fun to 23 some odd years later, get back on the pool deck and apply a lot of this cool stuff that guys like Dean and Jim Lehman and Chris and all these people right that I've been exposed to via CTS that are incredibly smart, um, and granted, yeah, it's a lot of cycling, but you know like we we I did some of the hockey stuff with Dean, for example and you learn how to apply just good education, right, and then sound coaching, relationship building and all that. And then you know, morph it into the sport that you're working with, and I had a swimming background and I coached it. So it was like I was going completely blind. You know, like not going in and coaching pickleball, which I've never played, but it's a ton of fun, right, because you can take all these cool things that you've learned from the science side, from the relationship side, and then you know it's like well, we're standing there at your kitchen eating enchiladas. It's like it's. It's been a really fun challenge to say, okay, well, what can I do with this stuff that I know and how quickly can I help these, these athletes that that range from, you know, eight-year-old kids getting into the sport all the way up to kids going to Olympic trials, and it's been a ton of fun.
Speaker 2:Um, and and for me, the and this isn't a remote thing, this is, you know, we're working with these athletes every day. However, one thing that I did get to do is bring in some technology. Um, so we, we do use a uh, an app that helped me. I write the workouts and things like that so that when the athletes can't make it to practice, they have it on their phone and they give me feedback and they do the thing. Um, and it trends and charts and all those things like we have in training peaks and whatnot.
Speaker 2:Not quite as well, but the, the about it goes back to just the trust and the relationship that we've built with these teenagers. Right, and they can, because teenagers are hard to work with, right, I mean, I've got a couple. I love them, but, man, some days you're pulling teeth to get information. Yeah, it is right, no-transcript. And it's so important because, then, I think there's two things. One, we know how they're feeling Right, which you know, we're teaching them more and more, like this is okay, tired, this isn't, but it's building trust, and they know that we care about them, versus like, okay, here's the thing, just go hammer, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to that end and how to build trust is people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I mean it's cheesy, but it's true 100% Right.
Speaker 2:But Dean was like what was it Care before you share, or something like that. I think he used to say the same idea. I mean, that was one of the things that he said a long time ago. And then you know, like the most underrated thing is just asking how people feel. Right and overrated is sometimes all this technology that we have and you forget that, hey, this is human and they're not a math equation, and all the things.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's how you do it in person. Would you say that you do something similar with your remote based amateur athletes?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I mean I, it depends on the communication style. It seems like, especially after COVID, texts have become cause, everyone's working at home, right, and so they're multitasking and they're in their jammies texting me under the table while they're on board meeting or whatever. But I mean most of my interaction is usually starting with hey, how did that feel right? Or hey, how's this week looking, yeah, right, or or whatever it's. I mean yeah, there might be a screenshot of the thing, but it's usually starting that way and then we progress into the okay, this is what I saw, or this is that.
Speaker 1:And I think for myself I don't. I mean I'm a bit of a 14 year old like on text message because I'm trying to get that information quick, like in the mornings and whatnot, and I would say I'm doing that especially when athletes I know are in a heavy training phase, coming up to a raise or kind of, when it matters most If we're just building base, like in the base, and build kind of time period, I'm not as hot and heavy on the communication. But then as the intensity kicks up and travels kicking up and things are more volatile, that's usually when the communication scattergun starts going Right, that's usually when the communication scattergun starts going yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and so in that way I think this is important too from somebody who wonders what coaching is like. And I try to tell this to my athletes coming in is like all right, first month or two we're probably going to over communicate because I'm trying to learn who you are, how you are, how you react to training, and I want and I'm going to teach you some of the principles and the things that I, how I coach. Right After that it's more like a steady state for a while. Then, if it's a race, if you're into races and events and stuff, then it's probably going to tick up and then I'm going to be like in your face. But then transition phase and base phase I'm going to be like stepping back a bit and that doesn't mean that I care less, but it does mean that that process and kind of that oscillation of communication and accountability and stuff, it does ebb and flow or the conversations are different.
Speaker 1:The conversations are done, yeah we talk more about tech stuff. Like you heard me talking all about grips and tire width, entire pressure, and you're like man, oh my god right, yeah, he likes to nerd out, and so do I.
Speaker 2:I like getting the week yeah, I, yeah, yeah, I I do as much as the next person, but I had to give you a little ration of crap about that. But but yeah, that's the thing, right. And then certain people like to talk about some things more than others and that's that's okay, although, like I, I'm completely up front with people that you know, fridays I generally will reserve for talking about critical weekend stuff like racing or this or that, and that's not the day to like catch me about what file tooth pattern is the best this week. Do that on Tuesday, unless you're racing and you need to. We may need to make a decision about which file tooth pattern is pertinent to the weekend's race, but hopefully we have it dialed long before Friday, before the event.
Speaker 1:Last question for you, Colin, then we'll wrap this up. If somebody has a coach, do they need a coach forever?
Speaker 2:That's a good question, um, in some regards, I think that I've done the best job when I coach myself out of a job. As far as the intervals go, right, um, I I've got some people coming up on 20 years in the same breath and our relationship has changed Right, and you know, they know about what they need to do, right, um, and we sort of joke a couple of them like we'll be doing some testing, whatever ftp testing or something like that. Okay, we know it's going to be within five watts and nine times out of ten we get right because we've just reached that point. But in the same breath one of the things that was fun this year with with one fellow I think next season's our 20th um he's completely changed his goals, what he wants to do with racing, and so that's refreshed some of the interval workouts and things like that. But it was really good in the sense that we had some excellent conversations about like, okay, well, this is where you're at as an athlete, this is where you're at with your family.
Speaker 2:What can we do differently? What excites you? Right, and, and so in that case, I think it's a great. Yeah, I mean not maybe forever, but very long-term, yeah, as long as you're getting on with the person and it's a fruitful relationship. Sure, you know, if you feel good after X amount of years that your coach has educated you on the four by twelves or whatever, and you don't feel you need the relationship as much, then yeah, maybe it's. Or maybe it's just time for change, right, like a different perspective. And that's normal too, right? I mean, we've both been doing this long enough that both sides might say like, hey, look, this has been awesome. However, I think you need something else, something different and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad you said what you said about kind of like coaching yourself out of a job. I was. Those were like when we were riding today, I was thinking about what we're going to talk about and and, and I remember thinking to myself, I'm like when I'm doing a good job, I'm essentially working. If I, if I do a good job, I'm working myself out of that, because I'm teaching you as well as coaching you, and in that way, it's a bit of a gamble, right, because to do coaching well, that is exactly what you have to do. And I even tell my athletes now I never well, I don't think I was smart enough back then but I tell them now. I say the reason I'm telling you this and telling you this again is because if I'm dead and gone, right, I want you to be able to handle this for a while. Or, more importantly, when I go off on vacation for a week, I want you to not freak out when something happens, because I'm still human too.
Speaker 1:I still am not as accessible at certain points throughout the year, and I need you to learn in this process too, because you're going to be a way better athlete if so yeah, and even if they keep coaching with you for however long, if they understand the why, then they're going to do it better, or they can understand how to communicate to you like I need to do, 60 minutes broken up on trail versus 4x15, or whatever, right, yeah, and so in that way, when you're teaching them, you're also like instilling confidence in them too, because there's just there's some stuff too, and this is the other thing about a remote-based coach versus, uh, in, like in person, where some of your downhillers wanted you to come more in person to over in France, over in um weird place of the world Right, but you just couldn't, based on what you're doing, remote-based athlete won't have the coach holding their hand the whole time, and so you have to be able to make some decisions on the fly, and I think that is very understandable.
Speaker 1:And I've even had some athletes like call or text me when they're at the race and it's like high stakes, high pressure, what do I do? And I try to make myself available when I know it's like I already said, like when I know it's going to be like I'm here, but I'm not always going to be there. So I think too, from a remote based setting, you also have to have some understanding of what that looks like, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Well. And what are they going to do in the middle of the race when they can't text you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. And I think, to wrap this thing up, I mean, coaching is a process to help you better yourself and there's a lot of different hats that the coach is going to wear along in that process, but the biggest thing is developing the relationship and if you have time, willingness and eagerness to build another relationship in your life, you're a good candidate for a coach. To get a coach, would you agree? Yeah, 100%, absolutely. But in that way, coaches aren't perfect. They're going to miss things here and there because we are human.
Speaker 1:You know, coaches aren't perfect. They're going to miss things here and there, um, cause we are human. And but I think, with the technology that's moving along the way, it's going to help us to bridge that gap a little bit on both sides, to both get good information quickly digested and analyze it quickly. So I'm I'm excited to see where the AI and kind of tech revolution goes with it, but I, I, you know, I I don't think that the coach is going to be edged out entirely person. Uh, but all that being said, colin, thank you for taking time out of the busy day of eating pastries and riding mountain bikes that you've had it's.
Speaker 2:It's been wildly busy here in your living room. Yes, Jump on the pocket. I know I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Um, I really appreciate picking your brain and and just uh, just have another coach in the house. It's pretty fun.
Speaker 2:It's fun, yeah, yeah, fun, to trade ideas.
Speaker 1:Well to all of our listeners. I hope this helped to, like I said, pull back the veils a little bit on what coaching is, who coaches are some kind of off-the-cuff banter that we've had today, which was a very different sort of podcast format than I usually do. Uh, so if this spurred any questions on or curiosities, uh, head over to train rightcom backslash podcast and ask whatever question you want to me, colin or any of our coaches. Okay, uh, you can write that in and if it's specific to Colin, I'll get that over to him and I'll get them back on the show. But in that way, if this triggers a little bit more and you want a consultation or you want to work with a coach, this is great. But this is not the point of this podcast. It wasn't that. It's simply to communicate and help you understand what we do a little bit more. And if that, you know, pushes you over the edge a little bit to better yourself in the, in the endurance coaching or in the endurance training space, all the better. So, colin, any last words?
Speaker 2:Just to echo what you said if, hopefully, this arms people with enough information that they can, they can decide if it's right for them and they can make a choice and they can go talk to someone and find somebody and be better, right, so that that, at the end of the day, is the goal for us and all have people do things better and have fun doing it.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on the time crunch cyclist podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you want even more actionable training advice, head over to train rightcom backslash newsletter and subscribe to our free weekly publication. Each week you'll get in-depth training content that goes beyond what we cover here on the podcast. That'll help you take your training to the next level. That's all for now. Until next time, train hard, train smart, train right.
