The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast by CTS

Instructions for Boosting Cycling Performance with Sodium Bicarbonate (#219)

• CTS • Season 4 • Episode 219

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OVERVIEW: Sports Dietitian Kristen Arnold MS, RDN, CSSD is back to discuss exactly how sodium bicarbonate can improve cycling performance, how much to consume, when to take it, and what workouts or races it works best for. Coach Adam Pulford and Kristen also discuss new research showing that using sodium bicarbonate during an 8-week training program improves training adaptations.

Key topics in this episode:

  • What sodium bicarbonate does in the body
  • What's the problem with sodium bicarbonate?
  • What athlete types benefit from sodium bicarbonate?
  • Is sodium bicarbonate safe?
  • How much sodium bicarbonate should you take?
  • Multi-day loading with sodium bicarbonate
  • Sodium bicarbonate in long-term training plan

Guest
Kristen Arnold MS, RDN, CSSD is a registered dietitian (RDN), retired professional cyclist and Women's Development Road Director for USA Cycling. She is a board-certified specialist in sports dietetics (CSSD) and is a Level 1 USA Cycling coach. Her private practice nutrition counseling business focuses on sports nutrition for women athletes.

Links

References:

Host
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for more nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.

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Speaker 1:

From the team at CTS. This is the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast, our show dedicated to answering your training questions and providing actionable advice to help you improve your performance even if you're strapped for time. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford, and I'm one of the over 50 professional coaches who make up the team at CTS. In each episode, I draw on our team's collective knowledge, other coaches and experts in the field to provide you with the practical ways to get the most out of your training and ultimately become the best cyclist that you can be. Now on to our show. Welcome back Time Crunch fans. I'm Coach Adam Pulford, your host, as always.

Speaker 1:

Sodium bicarbonate it's that stuff that you use to make cookies rise a little bit, or you keep your fridge smelling nice and fresh, or, if you're like me, you probably remember using it, with a little bit of white vinegar or any acid for that matter to create a volcano eruption in chemistry class back in grade school or maybe last week, something like that.

Speaker 1:

In cycling, we've been using it to try to go faster and beat your competition lately, and I actually did a podcast about this back in June of 2023. But since then, we've had the Olympic Games, we've had a few editions of the Tour de France, tour de France, thumbs Abag, zwift and the 2024 World Championships in Zurich, where everybody saw Michael Woods famously scarf down a bowl of opaque goop at the start of the race. So there's been quite a bit of buzz about sodium bicarbonate yet again. Velo and Outside Magazine have both written articles about it, and after these major competitions, it's sparking even more curiosity about this alkaline sport performance enhancing powder. So what's new with bicarb and why should you care about it as an athlete yourself? To help explain this, I've brought back in Kristen Arnold, a trusted dietitian in this space, who you've heard on the podcast before. So, kristen, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2:

Thanks so much. Happy to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, when I've been out at the races or I hit the group rides, talk to my athletes or read questions that are being submitted to the pod, I've been hearing a lot about sodium bicarbonate. It's like should I take it? What's the best way to use it? Is it good for short intensity or long intensity? And how can I take it on the bike? So we'll go over all that and more today, but in particular, we'll explore the question of is it for short intensity or long intensity, Because that's so curious. I mean, I feel like it's kind of shifting in the way that athletes are using it. Maybe people like you are recommending it. So before we get going here, Kristen, remind us what sodium bicarbonate actually does in our body that is beneficial in the way of intense exercise or any exercise.

Speaker 2:

Anytime we're talking about a supplement, we do want to understand the mechanism of action right. We don't want to just throw things at the wall. I mean, maybe we do, but some science, you go backwards, you know it works and then you figure out why. Sometimes you're like what are we trying to produce, what are we trying to change? And then we figure out how to do that. So sodium bicarbonate specifically helps to increase the alkalinity or make your blood more basic. So it creates an extracellular environment in which, when we're exercising, a lot of the fatigue we experience is because we're building up hydrogen ions, and so the sodium bicarb, by increasing alkalinity, we can clear out more of those hydrogen ions and therefore delay fatigue.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think the best way to wrap our brains around this is like a lot of things happen in the body to cause fatigue. Acidosis is a big one that we understand, understand, and there's other things going on, but that acidity in that environment is really a big factor. So anything that can help neutralize that, including just training itself, right Cause as you do more training you get better at the training Um, that's one way to do it. Or you take something like sodium bicarbonate that can also help um in the cellular ways, and in a previous podcast I mentioned that before. That is episode number 148 entitled Biocarb Curious with CTS coach Jason Koop. Check that out because we do a pretty good job of going deep into, like, what is going on with that. But this is nothing new under the sun, right, kristen? I mean? I mean, we've been seeing this in exercise physiology and in in athletes for how long?

Speaker 2:

Uh, at least 40 years. There's definitely studies dating back to the eighties, and that's when there were studies. Potentially people were experimenting with it before then.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so also remind us. It's like, why was it so hot then? And maybe like went away, Like what's the problem with sodium bicarbonate? If it's still great? Why don't we just like jack ourselves on it every time we go out and pedal our bike?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was thinking about that too as a dietician a lot of the reason that we stopped recommending it, even though it is one of the few supplements that's been shown to be effective. There's only four supplements that are recommended by the International Olympic Committee and sodium bicarb is recognized as one of those. But we get a lot of potentially adverse side effects from taking it, the main one being gut issues, things like diarrhea, nausea. But what's interesting to me is, you know, when I was doing research for this podcast. Yes, a lot of the studies showed they had to exclude certain participants because they had GI issues, or maybe they included them, but there was also a pretty big percentage of people that didn't have any symptoms. So I think in the medical community and the sports community, we've written it off because for most, for a athletes, the side effects are not worth it, but at the same time, there could be a lot of athletes out there that it's perfectly fine for.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think historically it's gotten a bad rap for those potential issues and I think too, what made me do the first podcast about it was some new products on the market, trying to go around and kind of avoiding the GI issue Anything from the PR lotion from Amp Human to the kind of latest and greatest Morton bicarb little mixture stuff that people consume to make it easier or either bypass the gut entirely or make it easier on the stomach to handle some of this.

Speaker 1:

Additionally, I've got athletes both kind of like pro and amateur taking different sort of capsules and things like that. So there's many different ways to go about getting the bicarb into your body. We'll get to that in a second, but it's pretty solid in research to say that it improves anything from a anaerobic capacity like a long sprint, to say that it it improves anything from a um anaerobic capacity like a long sprint 20, 30 seconds, something like that, all the way out to 12 minutes. So is it to you, kristen, when you've went through a bunch of the research, uh, for this podcast itself or some of the stuff in the past, are you seeing anything that says definitely it's like longer than 12 minutes? Or what are you seeing with your athletes that are using it. What do you recommend and where are we going with this bicarb thing for endurance?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in the research it is. When you look at the meta-analyses, you look at the studies that have been testing this, there's definitely more evidence to support that shorter duration, like 30 seconds to 12 minutes. But there is some newer studies coming out Granted, they're small sample sizes and there's not as many of them showing that there could be a performance benefit for activities up to an hour or an hour and a half, which is still not super long, but something that I've been experimenting with some of the athletes that I work with that use this is. So maybe it only helps for up to 12 minutes, but let's take a road race, for example, or a criterium, a race that's like 60, 90, 120 minutes. If the fourth attack goes off and that's the move that sticks because everyone's fatigued, but you made it in there and that happened in the first 10, 20 minutes of the race, that's going to put you in a really good spot for success. So, do you need it to last an hour? Not necessarily, depending on the application and the sport that you're in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's it for sure. It's like, just because you know the effort is 12 minutes or less, it's like that could happen at any given moment, and you're you can probably help me on this too. But once I do ingest it, the benefit of that sodium bicarbonate is floating around your body. For what? Two, three hours long.

Speaker 2:

Yep, something like that Mike Woods would say. Four is what he said in his article.

Speaker 1:

Exactly so I mean, and so it'll last over time. So, depending on when, when the move goes, like you said, when you actually need to make an effort, it'll be there in the body to handle it. I'd say anecdotally, both with myself and my athletes, it's also the repeated efforts. So if I need to do a 30-second effort or a 60-second effort or a 10-minute breakaway or something like that, and then go again and again, it seems like there's a durability component to it because of that acidity that increases with repeated efforts. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely yeah, and some of the studies that I looked at, I mean we know that a certain amount will produce, it'll raise, the pH of your blood to a certain level as you accumulate those hydrogen ions with the exercise.

Speaker 2:

So, like the matches you're burning or the efforts you're doing, you're slowly making it more acidic, but you still are starting from that period of time where your blood is more alkaline. So if you're in a race and there's only two matches that you have to burn and they're not all out, you know your blood is still going to stay more alkaline than it was before. If you do three or four or five attacks now, that's going to lower the pH. So I think there's an element to how long it's in your system period. So that two, three, maybe four hours, maybe not, and then also the demands of the race or the activity that you're doing. So like are you doing 25 sprints? It's probably going to run out pretty quickly. Are you doing a few? You might have a longer period of time where your blood is staying at that more basic level.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So before we get into any, here's how to use this protocols or how much to actually ingest. What sort of athlete are you recommending sodium bicarbonate to? Is it anybody that wants to compete within one to four hours? Is it? Is it, um, steady athletes, always sprinty athletes, and speak to maybe like what sort of athlete with what sort of habits should be looking at? Uh, somebody supplementing with sodium bicarb? Because if I'm somebody who is kind of the normal master's racer maybe 40 plus, and I want that extra edge I'm only training 10 hours a week or less. I'm going to, I want that edge and it's a safe, recommended by all the authorities. Therefore, yeah, I'm doing it. Man, what would you say to that kind of weekend warrior, time crunched athlete who wants the extra edge?

Speaker 2:

every podcast we talked about this. So we want to make sure that the athlete is meeting their body's energy needs and macronutrient needs, is getting them from primarily whole foods and overall optimizing the quality of their eating patterns. And then we go to performance specific nutrition strategies, making sure that they are eating the optimal amounts and types of foods before, during and after training. And then we get into supplement protocols. So, seeing as there's never going to be an application of like a deficiency, to apply sodium bicarb, this is purely for as an ergogenic aid, something that will improve performance. So, athletes that I've recommended this to, definitely anyone that's doing track racing for the most part, like the athletes that I have cyclists that are track racers Um, we always want to test it out.

Speaker 2:

First. It's not worked with the majority of the athletes that I've worked with but, um, potentially we needed to try other forms. So track cycling, for sure, and then other types of races, anything that has demand of short hard efforts in the first hour. So not necessarily a road race that is flat for the first three hours and there might be a hill section at the end first three hours and there might be a hill section at the end, but something like a criterium where they're doing um multiple bouts of fatigue with the sprinting out of corners and maybe they are um one of the teammates that is on the offense in the first half of the race. So those types of efforts and also I've also recommended it to things like cyclocross so short, shorter duration, um demands of high intensity.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yeah, and with that cross country mountain biking, um, short track mountain biking, crits, road races, yeah, and I can't I really can't emphasize this enough and I'm glad you brought it up, kristen is like all these supplemental things If it's caffeine, sodium, bicarb, beetroot, betalains, whatever, if you get everything else wrong, the foundational aspects wrong, this stuff ain't going to work for you. If you're running on a glycogen midway through or if you just don't have enough energy on board, all the caffeine in the world is just going to stress you out, it's going to actually give you more cognitive fatigue. And if you ain't sleeping or if you're not actually doing your training program, forget it. Like all this is like on a pyramid of importance, it's it's at the very top sleeping, training, eating, hydrating, that's all the bottom.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so, as you're building your pyramid of performance or whatever analogy you want to use this, but I get so many questions about the tippy tippies top stuff, not so much about the base or the middle or something like that. So so, because everyone, our audience, asks these questions, we're answering it today, but we're also going to like bring that perspective of why and when and how to do this and if you, I would say qualify as an athlete to do that. So if you do have the good sleeping habits, the good training habits we've optimized body composition, we've optimized fueling strategies and we're now into the realm of race strategies and how to increase performance, yeah, then you qualify for some sodium bicarb, some beetroot, some caffeine, and away we go.

Speaker 2:

Yep. And one other thing I would add to that is there are safety concerns. It is generally considered a safe supplement, but if you have any kind of blood pressure issues, if you're on blood pressure medication, and also something to consider is if you are at a predisposition for kidney stones. A lot of masters, male athletes, are already predisposed and there is some evidence to suggest I mean, it's just a lot of stress on your kidneys putting this much sodium through filtering it. So if you have had them or you're prone to them, definitely this is something I would not recommend.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so that's really good that you brought that up. I was going to get there when we talked about some of the specific products. But straight into the point, a very popular product, the Morton 19 or 22 for reference. The 22'm experienced with it. That's the recommendation that they give. If you do the math on it, that is roughly 6,000 milligrams of sodium that you're pumping through the system and so, anecdotally, like it works really well for me.

Speaker 1:

But I feel like I can feel the pressure to the system Like I can feel it in my neck. I can feel like I can feel when I'm going and that's good because from a performance standpoint, because the blood is pushing to all the working muscles, and if you're going to go hard, that is positive. But if your system can't handle it for the reasons that Kristen just described your hypertension and some of these other issues that's not a good thing. Okay, so you got to stay away from it. Meanwhile, if you do consume it, like you got to, you got to pound water Like you really have to. So we'll probably get there.

Speaker 1:

But let's talk about why it's so much sodium that you're putting through the system, and that means getting into guidelines, because, askers, you can root a hero of mine. A lot of his research is cited in this in the way of the protocol and how much to consume. So, um, Kristen, how much in like a gram per kilogram, should do you recommend athletes take? When should we do this kind of walk us through how to actually consume this stuff?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so um, asker Jukendrup is also I'm also a big fan. He produces a lot of great research and is really good at um boiling it down into practical information. So, um, both he and also there's a position stand that came out from the international society of sports nutrition uh, in 2021. That's a really great reference of um. It has a few hundred studies, including meta-analyses that it took research for, and then it provides recommendations. So both Dr Jukendrup and this position statement recommend 0.3 grams of sodium bicarbonate per kilogram body weight is shown to be the amount that is effective and also will be less likely to produce side effects. So we do know that the more we consume, the more the better environment we have for like producing that alkalinity, the performance benefit, but also the more likely athletes are to get side effects. So if you're trying to do 0.4 or 0.5, you could try it and see what happens, and any less than 0.3, potentially 0.2 has been shown to be helpful, but most studies show that you need at least 0.3.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so for everybody listening, it's like the reason we cite research, the reason why we have research is and then we give it to you in very simple terms is so that you can start in with what the research says and then dial it in accordingly to yourself. So sure, always experiment, but just know that if you're getting up into the 0.5, it's a warning zone. But just know that if you're getting up into the 0.5, it's a warning zone. If 0.3, which is like right in the middle not working for you, back it down and know that there has been findings to say that a little lower still can improve. But don't just go like jumping in the box of sodium into a glass of water and going for it.

Speaker 2:

Mm, hmm, yeah, and one other point. So the position statement also talked about how if you take 0.4 or 0.5 grams per kilogram body weight per day up to three days before, it can help your performance the next day.

Speaker 1:

So there's, you know potentially you could take more in over a period of time limit those GI symptoms for your actual event, and that would also be helpful. Yeah, that's a good point because in those usage guidelines so what we've been talking about a little bit more exclusively so far on the podcast is the single dose, where we're taking it before competition. What you just described, that's the multi-dose, so it's essentially like loading your system right before going into the competition. And, yeah, the reason you do that is to minimize GI issue on race day. So with single dose, if we swing back to that, there's a like a window of time to take this before competition. That's recommended, right, and what is that?

Speaker 2:

Yep, um. So 180 minutes, which is two, three hours before uh, three hours before has been shown to be like the max amount of time before you will start to um be out of that window, but also the most time that you have to limit the chance of GI symptoms. So usually a hundred and like an two to three hours before is recommended.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yeah, and I know with the Morton stuff I think they were saying like 90 minutes before, like you, even like kind of start. So they they hedge that their system to neutral or to have limit any GI issue a little. They say 90 minutes. I don't know Like I've I've had a couple athletes that it's like oh, I still have a little gurgly, so extend that out to two hours and then kind of a non issue. So I think to go with the recommendation always, adjust accordingly and all in as you go here too, and we'll we'll link to a lot of this research, both from Dr Jukenroob and the position statements that Kristen is talking about. We'll link to those that you can go back and start in on that for yourself if you are curious about this, and that'll include both the single dose and the multi-dose recommendations.

Speaker 1:

What's kind of fun here is there's the competition or the day of that we're talking about, so for performance. But there's also recently a pretty cool study coming up from Gabriella Gallo, who has been on the podcast before and he's in. What he did was he looked at some research that had training implications to it. So it's not only the race itself, but it was an eight week training program that used a control group that didn't take sodium bicarbonate and then had a training group that did take sodium bicarbonate. They did the same training and what did they find? Kristen?

Speaker 2:

They found. Actually I should have written this down beforehand, but there were performance benefits. So they did actually have higher training adaptations in the group that did use um, sodium bicarb, throughout their training, not just for one workout or one um trainings or, yeah, or one race. So uh, adam, you might need to help me out here. I believe it was increased the VO two max and then there were two other metrics.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it was. So they they tested before and after and what they, and they dosed them. I didn't write down the actual dosing but it followed the general recommendation of 0.2 to 0.3. And they dosed them for the high-intensity workouts themselves. They didn't dose them for the endurance and what they saw was the bicarb group had an increase in VO2 max post eight-week training program power at LT2, which was basically FTP, and an increased time to task failure, which means essentially time to exhaustion. There are TTE would be the metric that I talk about on the podcast all the time related back to WKO five. So essentially max power, production power, lt two and when you take a certain amount of work and just go until you can't, that also improved.

Speaker 1:

So what's interesting about this is if you say, well, okay, what does that? What does it mean? How'd they get there? If the sodium bicarbonate allows you to do more training in the session itself and you keep on doing more training sessions like that, you'll get more training effect and therefore you increase your performance. So it's not shocking to me that the mechanism neutralizes acidity with intensity. You do that a lot of times for training sessions and then you get even more benefit from the training sessions themselves.

Speaker 1:

It's super curious and there's a few asterisks here because it's eight weeks, okay, but then also the group was a recreational active cyclist. So it's I would say that it is. It fits a lot of like time crunched athletes, maybe our athletes that are kind of new to the sport, maybe you want to have good habits and they want to improve some layers of this. It's not elite athletes, it's not looking at people who have been doing this for 20 years, although I would argue that there's probably going to be some benefit there. But just and we'll cite this research, but it's worth looking at because his write-ups are like five minutes long, but all the data will be there. But I think that's a pretty strong, pretty strong research.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, um, I mean a couple of the inferences there, like things we can extrapolate on, like, potentially, the this population, like these athletes, have more room for improvement in their top end in those metrics that you mentioned, like the time to exhaustion. So, anytime that we can um get those athletes to do more work in those sessions, yes, it's going to produce those training adaptations. So, yeah, super interesting study, definitely promising. And and um, like you mentioned, adam, also, this is mostly applicable for certain types of workouts, right, like we don't necessarily recommend doing this for um lower intensity training, but any kind of high intensity interval training would make sense.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I and I think that's really important to address because unless you're doing like a multi-dose sort of strategy with this, you shouldn't be taken by carb for your endurance ride, your three hour endurance ride or even like a five hour ride that doesn't have a ton of intensity to it. It doesn't look like you'll get much benefit there. It's a little bit of an asterisk, is like okay, well, adam, you want to talk about the endurance component of performance and all this kind of stuff? And on the previous podcast I talked to Coop about some ultra runners consuming sodium bicarbonate and what we discussed was like yeah, there's definitely not a ton of research to say in cause, ultra runners, you're just going slow all the time. What Coop said, if I call correctly from my notes, is that you just get. You get so depleted that there could be some for people who they say anecdotally like it is benefiting them. They get so depleted on everything, including sodium. It's just a nice high dose of sodium and as long as they stay hydrated there could be some benefit there.

Speaker 2:

But the bicarbonate, the buffering of the muscle acidity, is probably not, uh, contributing there for ultra endurance folk yeah, and on top of that, um, with the sodium depletion also, it's just going to increase their plasma volume so they'll be be able to get more oxygen to the muscles they need. And also, I think athletes like Killian, like they're really experienced, they may, they'll be able to pace really well. But I wonder if some of we might have some rec athletes out there that if you're over pacing, yeah, maybe it will help because you're going to burn through a lot of those factors in the first hour and it could help to make you more successful later in the race.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and to that point, high dose of volume, increased plasma volume.

Speaker 1:

We've talked about that on a couple other episodes.

Speaker 1:

What's interesting there and I thought back to my interview with Dr McCubbin where the salt intake or the sodium intake over time, that's actually not the driver of performance. What's occurring there is it makes you thirsty and you drink more and over time, if you can consume more fluid and then you have the kind of the proper chemistry within the cell going on which sodium helps regulate that a little bit, that could be an extra benefit or an extra layer of some of this like ultra endurance stuff. So I think I'm not saying take bicarb if you're doing um, like the unbound gravel or something like that, I don't think that you need to put this in your uh, your, your aid station or anything like that. I think where it shines the most is intensity, intermittent intensity and endurance components, where it is like road racing for four hours because it's in your system for long periods of time. If you are going just to finish the gravel race and there's not a ton of performance necessarily in the goal, I don't think that you need to jack yourself on sodium bicarbonate.

Speaker 2:

Yep, that's what we think so far, for sure pro tour on down.

Speaker 1:

there's a lot of use of sodium bicarbonate, more so than like five to 10 years ago, and I think that is curious. I think that because there is um potential benefit with not a ton of cost like I've become more liberal in my recommendation of sodium bicarbonate to athletes. That's kind of what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, another um interesting anecdotal story I have about an athlete I recommended it to is um, she is doing stage races and a lot of the stage race she was doing include prologues, so really short races, um, but also ones that are in that anywhere from like 10 to 30 minutes, um, and she reported that she didn't know where her limit was when she was taking it because now, like her body sensations were so much different than she was used to training, like you know, when you're doing a time trial, a lot of athletes these days they don't even even still they're not necessarily relying on their power meter, they're relying on these body sensations to tell them how hard they need to go when depending on the course features. But she said that it kind of messed up her pacing plan because she couldn't feel those sensations and it was a lot different than she was used to. So, even if there was a performance benefit, definitely need to practice with it because it does feel different for sure.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Yeah, it feels super different and couldn't agree more. And that goes to the general recommendation of anytime that you're going to use something in a race, work backward and try it in training beforehand so you get those sensations before you kind of know where the upper end is. I was talking with Kristen a couple of weeks ago after one of our podcasts and I've got strong data on myself that every time I buy a car I've got a one to two and a half percent increase in power production, especially at 20 minutes and five minutes and so, and when I'm, when I'm going there, I do feel like I have extra capacity.

Speaker 1:

It's not going to work for everybody, but those sensations are important and you can overpace and maybe over deliver in those situations. So it's a curious little product that we are talking about here. But to wrap this up and I think like a little bit in closing here, Kristen, you've been in the sport for a long time. You're a dietitian, you're a coach, you work with elite athletes, you work with weekend warriors. Do you see sodium bicarbonate coming back into the limelight and becoming like the next caffeine or even as common as sport drink itself?

Speaker 2:

My instincts are actually telling me no. I think this will always be somewhat novel. I think there are risks, like a lot of the other supplements and things that are commonplace, are there's really no downside? And they might not. They might even have other health benefits. Right, like beetroot juice is a good example, too, to add to that list. Beetroot juice has a ton of antioxidants and there's other benefits beyond the performance indications. The performance indications, um, ketones as well, like it was first used in clinical practice and then this and then sports found out about. They're like oh, this is interesting. So, um, I my instincts are telling me it's not necessarily going to be commonplace, but definitely at the high level it might be commonplace. So at the world tour level maybe, yes. At the recreational level, probably not.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would agree with that, for the mere fact that the performance is the main driver of this right and I think, with a lot of, um, amateur athletes, I'm just going to say is like there's a lot of other stuff on the table that we can work on and some low hanging fruit to pick before we pick sodium bicarbonate. So, um, sleep habits, nutrition, hydration habits, training habits and tactical habits, If it's comes down to like racing, if you just become a better bike racer itself way better than a one or 2% sodium bicarbonate boost, Right. So there, there's a lot of other stuff to work on. However, for the marginal gain aspect of it, I do think that this will be um, I mean, it kind of already is right. It's the marginal, it's one of the marginal gain aspects that we can talk about.

Speaker 2:

Yep, and I mean even on that note. We know caffeine works, at least in the literature, and, like I said, sodium bicarb we know it works Like something like ketones is a little bit more subjective, depending on what research you're looking at. So it's not whether it works or not, it's like what other factors are holding us back from doing it.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yep, exactly so kind of in summary. I mean sodium bicarbonate, definitely here to stay. It's a marginal gains thing. I've become more liberal in my recommendation for both short and long-term. But even in that long-term endurance I would say it's best used when you have intermittent intensity or some sort of performance aspect to it. Kristen gave you recommendations on gram per kilogram to take it and take it kind of a far way out. I think you said 90 minutes up to three hours, right.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and if you're going to, if you're going to implement this into a race, make sure you do it a couple of times in training and make sure it works for you so that you don't have a bike harm blowout at some point I know.

Speaker 2:

I was just going to say, when you are testing it out, definitely have a bathroom nearby, like maybe you do it at a training race in a park or something and you know the and make sure that the uh, the doors are not locked, depending on what time of year you're there. It could happen. You don't want to use a bush, you don't have to.

Speaker 1:

This is. This is all true, but also very good, uh, recommendations. So, um, yeah, besides that, is there anything else that you want to add to it, Kristen?

Speaker 2:

I think we covered it pretty well. Yeah, marginal gains. I always love talking about these topics. They're always fun, even if it's just fun to listen and think about what could happen with these things. Um, it's. It's good to do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Agreed for sure, and I think too, as the research slowly evolves and also athletes kind of using it in different ways, um, we, we got to think of why it's it's helping them, you know, anecdotally, and then try to, um, find it in the data and then, you know, bring it down to, uh, the average person that's curious about it. So that's our aim on the on the podcast today and and Kristen, uh, kind of like always, if, if, people liked what they heard from you here, uh, how do they get in touch with you? Do you do consults? How does that work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, uh, my website is sports nutrition for womencom. I don't only work with women athletes, but, um, I primarily work with women athletes and, like we're taking clients right now, really anytime, I have two other practitioners that work for me as well, and so one of the things we do integrate is supplement protocols. So if this is something you're interested in, we will work on that foundational and performance centric nutrition strategies, but we also do have supplement recommendations and protocols for that.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. Well, I will link to your website and your socials in the landing page, and that's where you can also find some of the meta-analysis, some of the stuff from Dr Zuckernup as well as Dr Gabriel Ligello with Knowledge is what All that stuff will be on the landing page. So head on over to trainrightcom backslash podcast, and it's also nested in the Apple podcast, the Google, the Spotify just laid out there. So make sure to scroll down if you want to get a little bit more information and connect with Kristen. Thank you so much again, Kristen, for joining us. I'm sure you'll be back on the podcast soon, but until then, uh, yeah, thanks for your time.

Speaker 2:

Thanks again. Can't wait for the next one.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you want even more actionable training advice, head over to trainrightcom backslash newsletter and subscribe to our free weekly publication. Each week you'll get in-depth training content that goes beyond what we cover here on the podcast. That'll help you take your training to the next level. That's all for now. Until next time, train hard, train smart, train right.

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